The next big thing in AP 2.0

[dmode]

Wow! I really like Tesla and am very serious / very close to buying a model S...I was thinking some time in Q4. But the more I read the posts in this forum the more I second-guess my thought process. Is it really that bad out there? I hear about how terrible navigation is. I hear about how there's really truly been no meaningful updates in the last few years (aside from facelift). I hear about the lack of compatibility with our mobile phones. I hear about the poor quality of materials used in the cars. I hear about how terrible service is. I hear about empty promises. I hear about cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars less yet are even better equipped and more advanced in some ways. I hear about the severe lack of creature comforts...The list kind of goes on and on. To add salt to my wounds - one of my friends works for a Tesla supplier and says the same thing AmpedRealtor said in his post (hence the reason I copied his post; I however am not trying to single out this particular individual). So...what am I missing here? Why do (seemingly) most of you all have Teslas? Am I (and other potential buyers) making a mistake? Would you buy a Tesla again? Sorry...had to vent. Which apparently this forum is great for that

If you read up bimmerpost, you would think BMW was worse than Kia as well. That's what forums are for - people to bitch and moan. How many times can I come to a forum and say "I love my car" ? Not many. But if I was pissed off at something, I would go on and on. You can read this forum or look at facts - Tesla has >90% customer satisfaction, >90% Tesla customers say they will buy another Tesla, many many Model 3 reservation holders are current Tesla owners, Tesla sales keeps growing despite no advertising or marketing. I owned BMWs for over a decade, and I feel Model S is far superior to any of the cars I had owned.

 

[alcibiades]

Wow! I really like Tesla and am very serious / very close to buying a model S...I was thinking some time in Q4. But the more I read the posts in this forum the more I second-guess my thought process. Is it really that bad out there? I hear about how terrible navigation is. I hear about how there's really truly been no meaningful updates in the last few years (aside from facelift). I hear about the lack of compatibility with our mobile phones. I hear about the poor quality of materials used in the cars. I hear about how terrible service is. I hear about empty promises. I hear about cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars less yet are even better equipped and more advanced in some ways. I hear about the severe lack of creature comforts...The list kind of goes on and on. To add salt to my wounds - one of my friends works for a Tesla supplier and says the same thing AmpedRealtor said in his post (hence the reason I copied his post; I however am not trying to single out this particular individual). So...what am I missing here? Why do (seemingly) most of you all have Teslas? Am I (and other potential buyers) making a mistake? Would you buy a Tesla again? Sorry...had to vent. Which apparently this forum is great for that

If you must have a long range capable EV today, then buy a Tesla. If you can wait, wait.

1. Navigation isn't "terrible". It's just kind of on the archaic side compared to what is available.

2. Yeah, it doesn't really take advantage of modern phone capabilities. It's annoying as this puts emphasis on the inadequacies of the rest of the nav/entertainment system. (see 1.)

3. I don't notice that my interior materials are poor. Maybe I don't know how to look? I do worry that my perforated seats aren't particularly tough, but so far so good. I think the non-glossy finish is uninspiring, so I'm glad mine is glossy. The front center console on the X has a trapdoor for losing things, too.

4. I haven't had bad service in the sense of it being a poorly done repair or disrespectful to my car (scratches, stains, etc). However, I have not found the communication to be that good and the process is a bit too opaque for me. Also, the loaner situation has for me been sub-par. Kind of icky that they offer ICEs! My car has been in service for over a week and they won't tell me anything. So I'm a bit, um, concerned.

5. Indeed, they aren't like driving an old executive's office around. But I like the minimalist spaceship vibe. So YMMV! But the blindspot detection lack, no rain-sensing wipers, no surround view, primitive media, no waze...

Bonus: And EAP is a joke, both in operation and in support. Nearly a year after its announcement it has yet to be at the level of the system it replaced.

There's no reason to pretend these things aren't accurate. They're fair. Tesla still provides the only long range and fun to drive EV. Either that's enough for you to pull the trigger despite the inadequacies or it's not. I would not buy one based on anything other than what it does right now. I test drove AP1 but bought the promise of AP2 -- this has soured the brand for me immensely.

As to the flat earth society, I think nearly every critic of the current state of affairs at Tesla can be found to also have praised the car in some aspects. I love the interior design of my 6. I love the motor. BUT don't listen to those who completely dismiss the numbered items. They are more interested in championing than in understanding.

 

[croman]

I've never gotten anything but a Tesla loaner at Highland Park. They assured me they cannot even source ICE loaners. It really depends on your particular service center. I am frustrated by Tesla's business practices and lack of consistency. Some SCs are amazing. Others damage cars, lie, and steal from owners. Its insane the company cannot get a consistent experience across sales centers or service centers.

I love my car but I would really hesitate about buying another. I was interested in an X but I'm waiting until competition arrives that makes Tesla up its game. If they fail, I'm sure other companies will be there to offer me comparable EVs 3-5 years from now. They might not have falcon wing doors but at least the doors will work and the windshields won't be safety hazards.

 

[oktane]

Wow! I really like Tesla and am very serious / very close to buying a model S...I was thinking some time in Q4. But the more I read the posts in this forum the more I second-guess my thought process. Is it really that bad out there? I hear about how terrible navigation is. I hear about how there's really truly been no meaningful updates in the last few years (aside from facelift). I hear about the lack of compatibility with our mobile phones. I hear about the poor quality of materials used in the cars. I hear about how terrible service is. I hear about empty promises. I hear about cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars less yet are even better equipped and more advanced in some ways. I hear about the severe lack of creature comforts...The list kind of goes on and on. To add salt to my wounds - one of my friends works for a Tesla supplier and says the same thing AmpedRealtor said in his post (hence the reason I copied his post; I however am not trying to single out this particular individual). So...what am I missing here? Why do (seemingly) most of you all have Teslas? Am I (and other potential buyers) making a mistake? Would you buy a Tesla again? Sorry...had to vent. Which apparently this forum is great for that

Because I believed the hype until I actually owned the car. If you get a base model car without any expectations I think you'll be happy. If you buy all the bells and whistle's prepare to be disappointed when auto pilot doesn't work. Do yourself a favor and buy a used AP1 Tesla if you need an electric vehicle now or wait for a different manufacturer that actually cares about quality or testing the products before taking money.

 

[alcibiades]

I've never gotten anything but a Tesla loaner at Highland Park. They assured me they cannot even source ICE loaners.

It is crazy the different experiences two people can have at the same place. I do think X loaners are harder to come by than S ones, and that probably explains it.

Oh, and I love my goofy doors!

 

[dmode]

If you must have a long range capable EV today, then buy a Tesla. If you can wait, wait.

1. Navigation isn't "terrible". It's just kind of on the archaic side compared to what is available.

2. Yeah, it doesn't really take advantage of modern phone capabilities. It's annoying as this puts emphasis on the inadequacies of the rest of the nav/entertainment system. (see 1.)

3. I don't notice that my interior materials are poor. Maybe I don't know how to look? I do worry that my perforated seats aren't particularly tough, but so far so good. I think the non-glossy finish is uninspiring, so I'm glad mine is glossy. The front center console on the X has a trapdoor for losing things, too.

4. I haven't had bad service in the sense of it being a poorly done repair or disrespectful to my car (scratches, stains, etc). However, I have not found the communication to be that good and the process is a bit too opaque for me. Also, the loaner situation has for me been sub-par. Kind of icky that they offer ICEs! My car has been in service for over a week and they won't tell me anything. So I'm a bit, um, concerned.

5. Indeed, they aren't like driving an old executive's office around. But I like the minimalist spaceship vibe. So YMMV! But the blindspot detection lack, no rain-sensing wipers, no surround view, primitive media, no waze...

Bonus: And EAP is a joke, both in operation and in support. Nearly a year after its announcement it has yet to be at the level of the system it replaced.

There's no reason to pretend these things aren't accurate. They're fair. Tesla still provides the only long range and fun to drive EV. Either that's enough for you to pull the trigger despite the inadequacies or it's not. I would not buy one based on anything other than what it does right now. I test drove AP1 but bought the promise of AP2 -- this has soured the brand for me immensely.

As to the flat earth society, I think nearly every critic of the current state of affairs at Tesla can be found to also have praised the car in some aspects. I love the interior design of my 6. I love the motor. BUT don't listen to those who completely dismiss the numbered items. They are more interested in championing than in understanding.

1. Navigation is "terrible", when you perhaps compare with Google Maps. I have a 2013 BMW X5. Now that is a TERRIBLE navigation. Telsa navigation is 100x better than that. In the BMW nav, to enter an address I have to first enter the country (are you kidding me?), then zipcode, select a city, then enter the street name, and then enter street number. All of this uses an archaic iDrive input method, where you have to scroll for each letter. In Tesla, you simply type. To Google search a destination in BMW, you first have to search it in the BMW app and then "send it to the car". I am not kidding. Compare that to the integrated Google search in Tesla. Less said about the BMW voice nav, the better we are. You have to actually state the full address, including city, zipcode, and country and 90% of the time it didn't recognize what i was saying. I also have a Hyundai SUV. The less said about that navigation the better off we are.

2. You mean like Carplay integration ? That would be good. Other than that, the infotainment is the best of all cars I have ever owned or rented, by far. Streaming media, Tune In integration, Search and play any song, voice command and play any song. X5 and Hyundai doesn't even come close

4. I have 18,000 miles on my car and had to go to service only once for my annual service. In Burlingame. Got a same day appointment, and had a brand new 75D as loaner

 

[croman]

It is crazy the different experiences two people can have at the same place. I do think X loaners are harder to come by than S ones, and that probably explains it.

Oh, and I love my goofy doors!

Wow. They have tons of Xs sitting there when I drive by everyday. I would ask for an S loaner over an ICE. I have never owned an ICE nor have I even driven one in 4 years. They are repugnant and I'd raise hell if they ever tried to give me the keys to one. I should get a neck tattoo or something just make sure they know I'm serious.

 

[redan]

If you read up bimmerpost, you would think BMW was worse than Kia as well. That's what forums are for - people to bitch and moan. How many times can I come to a forum and say "I love my car" ? Not many. But if I was pissed off at something, I would go on and on. You can read this forum or look at facts - Tesla has >90% customer satisfaction, >90% Tesla customers say they will buy another Tesla, many many Model 3 reservation holders are current Tesla owners, Tesla sales keeps growing despite no advertising or marketing. I owned BMWs for over a decade, and I feel Model S is far superior to any of the cars I had owned.

I agree with @dmode. Only Tesla has a greater than 90% owner satisfaction rate. Porsche is then next in the 80% range. Then no one else is above 80%. Greater than 90% of Tesla owners would buy another Tesla. I'm guessing 90% of that "90% group" would only consider a Tesla when shopping for a new car. I know that, based on what is out there now, I wouldn't consider another ICE - and IMO there is no EV competitor to Tesla. I use AP2 for about 60 miles of a 68 mile one-way commute. Other than some early initial phantom breaking for giant road signs, I've had zero problems with AP2. Can I take a nap in the backseat and let the car drive me to and from work? No, but the car is too fun to drive to let it do all the work anyway. Is everything absolutely perfect concerning every single aspect of the car? No - but show me which car is perfect?

Do some people have reasonable gripes over service inefficiencies or repair issues? Certainly. But you're not hearing from the 90%+ of Tesla owners who love everything about their cars - or at least like their cars enough to want to buy another one. On this site, you'll hear from the same 20 people over and over again about how bad Tesla is. Perhaps take both the super good and the super bad posts with a grain of salt - but if Tesla was really that bad, this site wouldn't have 50,000+ members talking about the cars.

 

[Shock-On-T]

The navigation in the Tesla is amazing.
It misses a few features like waypointing but that is more than made up for by:
- huge size and detail
- heading tracking, so whole map turns as car turns
- chargepoint integration, so you can see chargers and how many spots are free
- insanely accurate voice control (eg. "Navigate to Ryde Hospital")
- satellite mode

It even has an Easter egg that shows your car on the surface of Mars

 

[alcibiades]

Wow. They have tons of Xs sitting there when I drive by everyday. I would ask for an S loaner over an ICE. I have never owned an ICE nor have I even driven one in 4 years. They are repugnant and I'd raise hell if they ever tried to give me the keys to one. I should get a neck tattoo or something just make sure they know I'm serious.

It just got more interesting. I'll fill you in via PM.

 

[Bebop]

Psst....

LOL

 

[Bebop]

No, Tesla is horrible at communicating but great at taking money.

I honestly could not agree any more. Super Nice Folks to deal with for sure. Absolutely terrible communication. The worst I've dealt with buying any kind of product, let alone a car of this magnitude.

 

[T_E_S_L_A]

I have read all the posts/responses...I chose not to directly respond to any in particular because there are many. But I certainly respect and appreciate the variable points of view out there. All of you imo made excellent points and I guess you can say I'm learning as I'm going...and I do indeed have this forum (all of you) to thank for that. I want a Tesla. I believe in Tesla and the future of EVs. I've wanted one for a few years now and my desire only grows. I'm going to get one and I really hope my experience is a positive one. I'll look more closely at AP1 vs AP2 options out there due to some of the comments. Although...I absolutely love to drive and I kind of wonder how often I'll truly use AP. It's funny because my expectations have actually been lowered since being a member here...maybe that's a good thing in the long run

FYI for anyone that is local I'll be at the National Electric Drive Event in Virginia Beach on Sunday...if anyone can make it feel free to PM me as I would love to chat and learn more about Tesla.

Cheers

 

[Snerruc]

Wow! I really like Tesla and am very serious / very close to buying a model S...I was thinking some time in Q4. But the more I read the posts in this forum the more I second-guess my thought process. Is it really that bad out there? I hear about how terrible navigation is. I hear about how there's really truly been no meaningful updates in the last few years (aside from facelift). I hear about the lack of compatibility with our mobile phones. I hear about the poor quality of materials used in the cars. I hear about how terrible service is. I hear about empty promises. I hear about cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars less yet are even better equipped and more advanced in some ways. I hear about the severe lack of creature comforts...The list kind of goes on and on. To add salt to my wounds - one of my friends works for a Tesla supplier and says the same thing AmpedRealtor said in his post (hence the reason I copied his post; I however am not trying to single out this particular individual). So...what am I missing here? Why do (seemingly) most of you all have Teslas? Am I (and other potential buyers) making a mistake? Would you buy a Tesla again? Sorry...had to vent. Which apparently this forum is great for that

I own a 2016 S75 with no options built just after the front end refresh. I live a two day barge ride from a service center. After a year, absolutely no problems. Build was better than some BMWs. When my friends get in the car, all they see is the big screen. The guy up the street is unhappy his loaded 740 is ignored. Since I bought the car, I've added Autopilot and bumped it to a 75. Try that with any other car! Since I bought my car, I've lost track of the improvements Tesla has made to the S since my build. New motor is the latest with much better performance. I'm sure there are people with genuine problems with the car and/or Tesla, but it happens to all car companies. A friend had his new MB lunch it's engine before he got it home. *sugar* does happen. I don't believe I'm in the minority when I say I'm happy with mine and the limited interaction I've had with the company.

 

[u00mem9]

Hold out for AP2.9...they are adding forward hype sensing that can avoid Elon tweets.

(Full disclosure: happy Mobileye equipped owner commuting daily with reliable autopilot.)

 

[Herolad]

I have read all the posts/responses...I chose not to directly respond to any in particular because there are many. But I certainly respect and appreciate the variable points of view out there. All of you imo made excellent points and I guess you can say I'm learning as I'm going...and I do indeed have this forum (all of you) to thank for that. I want a Tesla. I believe in Tesla and the future of EVs. I've wanted one for a few years now and my desire only grows. I'm going to get one and I really hope my experience is a positive one. I'll look more closely at AP1 vs AP2 options out there due to some of the comments. Although...I absolutely love to drive and I kind of wonder how often I'll truly use AP. It's funny because my expectations have actually been lowered since being a member here...maybe that's a good thing in the long run

FYI for anyone that is local I'll be at the National Electric Drive Event in Virginia Beach on Sunday...if anyone can make it feel free to PM me as I would love to chat and learn more about Tesla.

Cheers

If you have a reservation for a model 3 that is within 6 to 8 months I would just wait that out and get a model 3. I personally think that they will make a major refresh of the model S at end of next year to differentiate it even more from the model 3. Personally I wish I had the patience and actually listen to my own advice... but I only have one model 3 reservation and I promised it to my wife... wish I made two that day

 

[JonG]

Wow! I really like Tesla and am very serious / very close to buying a model S...I was thinking some time in Q4. But the more I read the posts in this forum the more I second-guess my thought process. Is it really that bad out there? I hear about how terrible navigation is. I hear about how there's really truly been no meaningful updates in the last few years (aside from facelift). I hear about the lack of compatibility with our mobile phones. I hear about the poor quality of materials used in the cars. I hear about how terrible service is. I hear about empty promises. I hear about cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars less yet are even better equipped and more advanced in some ways. I hear about the severe lack of creature comforts...The list kind of goes on and on. To add salt to my wounds - one of my friends works for a Tesla supplier and says the same thing AmpedRealtor said in his post (hence the reason I copied his post; I however am not trying to single out this particular individual). So...what am I missing here? Why do (seemingly) most of you all have Teslas? Am I (and other potential buyers) making a mistake? Would you buy a Tesla again? Sorry...had to vent. Which apparently this forum is great for that

The takeaway from the moaning is buy a facelift AP1 car, it will have unlimited super charging, AP that works, the latest exterior, and if you're buying one of the bigger batteries or a P, be 30-40% less than the equivalent new car.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I have read all the posts/responses...I chose not to directly respond to any in particular because there are many. But I certainly respect and appreciate the variable points of view out there. All of you imo made excellent points and I guess you can say I'm learning as I'm going...and I do indeed have this forum (all of you) to thank for that. I want a Tesla. I believe in Tesla and the future of EVs. I've wanted one for a few years now and my desire only grows. I'm going to get one and I really hope my experience is a positive one. I'll look more closely at AP1 vs AP2 options out there due to some of the comments. Although...I absolutely love to drive and I kind of wonder how often I'll truly use AP. It's funny because my expectations have actually been lowered since being a member here...maybe that's a good thing in the long run

FYI for anyone that is local I'll be at the National Electric Drive Event in Virginia Beach on Sunday...if anyone can make it feel free to PM me as I would love to chat and learn more about Tesla.

Cheers

Here's the summary:
The car is amazing, drives well, feels futuristic, has all the EV benefits of no fuel/smog, long range, great charging network.
AP is just an additional feature, and the choice between AP1 and AP2 is just:
AP1 works well but won't ever get much better
AP2 works about as well and will keep getting better

Basically there's no bad option. If they weren't so expensive they'd be 90% of the market.

 

[Kant.Ing]

The next big thing in AP2.0 is an option for an AP3.0 retrofit but will cost you a new car.

 

[calisnow]

Is there any news, info, tweets, articles, etc that gives us a heads up to what's upcoming/in the works far as new features in AP 2.0? I guess the last "big thing" was auto Highbeams. So what's expected in the next big update?

Full Self Driving is on track for release October 1 as per Elon's tweet Sunday evening.