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Tried a FSD subscription. It's not worth it...

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I bit the bullet and tried the FSD one-month subscription option for a 1700 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2020 Model 3 Standard Plus. My opinion: not worth it.

Full Self Driving is just a terrible name for what is essentially Autopilot+. I'd imagine your commute would need to involve nothing but freeway driving to get much benefit from a $200 a month subscription, and definitely not $12000.

Summon is one of those features that's neat to play with, and might come in handy once in a blue moon. I'd pay $5 to sneak the car out of a tight spot once in a while, but not a recurring subscription.

Navigate on autopilot did relieve the necessity to keep turning autopilot off and back on every time I wanted to change lanes, which begs the question of why Tesla requires you to turn the autopilot off and back on just to change lanes. The cruise control worked the same as before, and honestly, I can handle lane changes on my own.

Stoplight and stop sign handling was terrible. It ID'd stop signs that weren't there, stopped the car in the middle of a highway, and tries to stop for most green lights unless you remember to tell it not to. It stopped for no reason multiple times during the trip. This in turn caused more safety hazards than if I just disabled it to begin with.

Autopilot is generally a great tool. You can turn it on, pay attention, and not really worry too much about your car doing things you'd rather it not do. FSD adds a whole new level of anxiety and complexity that is in no way a finished product. I can't imagine the FSD Beta being any better. I could understand it if it weren't so expensive, but at $12000/$200 per month, it is wildly overpriced. I've already canceled the subscription, and I doubt I'll be missing anything when it ends except the ability to impress friends by letting the car mope around a parking lot by itself.
1600px-Tesla_Autopilot_Engaged_in_Model_X.jpg

("Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X.jpg" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)
 
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Also I like the fine print that you will only be allowed to use robotaxi to make money through Tesla. So you're paying $12k for something you don't own and will have to pay Tesla a % to be able to make money with.


Nope.

You own it.

You just can't monetize it without additional conditions.


Kind of like how if you bought a DVD of a movie, you own the movie.

But you can't charge people admission to watch it without additional licensing.
 
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Nope.

You own it.

You just can't monetize it without additional conditions.


Kind of like how if you bought a DVD of a movie, you own the movie.

But you can't charge people admission to watch it without additional licensing.
Yeah exactly you own it for personal use. The price tag doesn't fit a personal use product in my opinion. They tout it like it will make you money so it's a deal now.
 
Nope.

You own it.

You just can't monetize it without additional conditions.


Kind of like how if you bought a DVD of a movie, you own the movie.

But you can't charge people admission to watch it without additional licensing.
Legally you don't own it. You paid for a license to use it in a limited way, outlined in the EULA (End User License Agreement).
All software is sold this way. You have very limited rights in how you use commercial software. Actual OWNERSHIP belongs to the company who made it.
Ie you do not own your copy of Windows 10 or MacOS or MS Office or FSD. Microsoft/Apple/Tesla own their software, respectively.

Same thing for movie DVD's. Sure you own the piece of plastic, meaning you can sell it, give it or throw it away, whatever. But you don't own the right to the movie as you point out, for things like public display.

I've searched and I can't find a EULA for FSD. Does Tesla issue one when you purchase/subscribe?
Would be an interesting read.
 
LOL at the customer "owning" something that he/she can't take with them to the next Tesla they purchase.

I just bought a sofa. Paid cash for it. I might move in 12 months time to a new home. Imagine Macy's telling me "you cant take it with you".
 
LOL at the customer "owning" something that he/she can't take with them to the next Tesla they purchase.

I just bought a sofa. Paid cash for it. I might move in 12 months time to a new home. Imagine Macy's telling me "you cant take it with you".
Imagine selling FSD to people with the right to have that software continually updated for the rest of their lives. That would be like expecting Macy's to replace the fabric on your sofa and rework the frame as it wears.

Imagine Tesla selling this lifetime software license for a mere $12000. How long before virtually everyone would have a lifetime of FSD and Tesla with no money to fund future development?

If I had to sell on such ridiculous terms, I'd be charging a lot more than the chump change they charge today.
 
Imagine selling FSD to people with the right to have that software continually updated for the rest of their lives. That would be like expecting Macy's to replace the fabric on your sofa and rework the frame as it wears.

Imagine Tesla selling this lifetime software license for a mere $12000. How long before virtually everyone would have a lifetime of FSD and Tesla with no money to fund future development?

If I had to sell on such ridiculous terms, I'd be charging a lot more than the chump change they charge today.
Only difference it's old tech. Nothing in the coming years will be something you hold on to. FSD while great with cameras now will be nothing compared to what it is in the future. That's like saying the software on your first computer was worth 12k because it's constantly upgradable and you'll be able to video call people all over the world for free and someday hold it in your pocket.

It's just a bad model no one has an issue paying for upgrades but I don't want to pay for the distant variable future now. Also Electric cars for 60-100k haha they will be free when we live in a world of abundance and have no jobs we just work to makes the world a better place for free.
 
LOL at the customer "owning" something that he/she can't take with them to the next Tesla they purchase.

I just bought a sofa. Paid cash for it. I might move in 12 months time to a new home. Imagine Macy's telling me "you cant take it with you".
You mean like how OEM Windows license works ?

Or for that matter so many other software applications. Once you install on one PC, you can’t install on another.
 
You mean like how OEM Windows license works ?

Or for that matter so many other software applications. Once you install on one PC, you can’t install on another.
Exactly. Licenses tied to specific hardware are not uncommon. Tektronix and Agilent test equipment often have (VERY expensive) optional software resident on the equipment that is enabled by purchasing a license key. That key is specific to the unit and is not transferable to a new unit, even if it's the same model.
 
I chose to buy FSD not because I thought it would be perfect, but rather I wanted to experience its progress. FSD now has much improved from four years ago. The journey has been interesting. Something to tell my grandchildren. Ten years after FSD has been solved it will be boring.
 
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I chose to buy FSD not because I thought it would be perfect, but rather I wanted to experience its progress. FSD now has much improved from four years ago. The journey has been interesting. Something to tell my grandchildren. Ten years after FSD has been solved it will be boring.
Don't get me wrong with my comments. I do believe it's something fun and situationally useful. It's the price tag and the fact that they're stripping off features on your already premium car. Remember when you bought a car for the features? Not bought a car and added the features? I bought Boost on the car but shouldn't that just come with new cars after they realized it was ok? VW/Audi has launch control should that be a paid option? Park assist is now standard on most cars. Even cable TV we have single non-movie channels that you have to pay extra for when we're already paying for our package.

I just don't like stripped of features that now you have to pay for it's just to easy to do with software. And others will follow and overtime it will become standard everywhere.
 
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I bit the bullet and tried the FSD one-month subscription option for a 1700 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2020 Model 3 Standard Plus. My opinion: not worth it.

Full Self Driving is just a terrible name for what is essentially Autopilot+. I'd imagine your commute would need to involve nothing but freeway driving to get much benefit from a $200 a month subscription, and definitely not $12000.

Summon is one of those features that's neat to play with, and might come in handy once in a blue moon. I'd pay $5 to sneak the car out of a tight spot once in a while, but not a recurring subscription.

Navigate on autopilot did relieve the necessity to keep turning autopilot off and back on every time I wanted to change lanes, which begs the question of why Tesla requires you to turn the autopilot off and back on just to change lanes. The cruise control worked the same as before, and honestly, I can handle lane changes on my own.

Stoplight and stop sign handling was terrible. It ID'd stop signs that weren't there, stopped the car in the middle of a highway, and tries to stop for most green lights unless you remember to tell it not to. It stopped for no reason multiple times during the trip. This in turn caused more safety hazards than if I just disabled it to begin with.

Autopilot is generally a great tool. You can turn it on, pay attention, and not really worry too much about your car doing things you'd rather it not do. FSD adds a whole new level of anxiety and complexity that is in no way a finished product. I can't imagine the FSD Beta being any better. I could understand it if it weren't so expensive, but at $12000/$200 per month, it is wildly overpriced. I've already canceled the subscription, and I doubt I'll be missing anything when it ends except the ability to impress friends by letting the car mope around a parking lot by itself.
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("Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X.jpg" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)
It really depends on where you drive and how you use it. I have had my Model Y for a month and a half, and sprung for FSD (mainly due to the impending $2000 price hike, I added it a few days before that hit). I use FSD ALL THE TIME on city streets. The main advantage I have is that I can engage FSD on city streets, not just the highway. I have about a 4 mile road by my house that I have to drive on to get to the highway, and it's straight as an arrow for most of it, and not many cross streets. FSD works GREAT for that road! I still don't expect it to actually NAVIGATE in the city, I just use it whenever I am driving a mile or more down a straight road.

My expectations are quite a bit higher for the FSD beta. Videos I have watched show multiple zero disengagement drives in my area. It seems to have no problem with roundabouts, or with weird intersections...or even road construction! I think many people's idea of what FSD is has been "poisoned" by their use of the "public" build, which will NEVER be real "full self driving". The "good stuff" is restricted to those in the beta...but that should change this week. Elon said last week that the beta would "go wide" this week. Fingers crossed!
 
It really depends on where you drive and how you use it. I have had my Model Y for a month and a half, and sprung for FSD (mainly due to the impending $2000 price hike, I added it a few days before that hit). I use FSD ALL THE TIME on city streets. The main advantage I have is that I can engage FSD on city streets, not just the highway. I have about a 4 mile road by my house that I have to drive on to get to the highway, and it's straight as an arrow for most of it, and not many cross streets. FSD works GREAT for that road! I still don't expect it to actually NAVIGATE in the city, I just use it whenever I am driving a mile or more down a straight road.

My expectations are quite a bit higher for the FSD beta. Videos I have watched show multiple zero disengagement drives in my area. It seems to have no problem with roundabouts, or with weird intersections...or even road construction! I think many people's idea of what FSD is has been "poisoned" by their use of the "public" build, which will NEVER be real "full self driving". The "good stuff" is restricted to those in the beta...but that should change this week. Elon said last week that the beta would "go wide" this week. Fingers crossed!
You paid 12k to drive 4 miles on a straight road? Autopilot does that now.
 
I don't know about anyone else but I commute 100 miles per day. There is so much crap that flies off of peoples cars and trucks. Autopilot/FSD doesn't handle any of that or potholes. Yesterday's accident was pretty sad a goldwing hit a full tire on the turnpike not a retread. The guy was just laying there smacked up against the median wall while they were working on him. Probably some old guy such a shame.

I see chairs, ladders, wheels a couch :) all kinds of crap out there and the normal retreads. Unless the system can handle everything without paying attention 100% of the time it's just a safety issue. You'll get comfortable no matter how much you say you wont and it will work fantastic until the one time that it doesn't.

Me I'd rather not have a life changing event to play with it until it's ready and someone else is liable. So let me know when the sleeping in the back seat release comes :)
 
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I don't know about anyone else but I commute 100 miles per day. There is so much crap that flies off of peoples cars and trucks. Autopilot/FSD doesn't handle any of that or potholes. Yesterday's accident was pretty sad a goldwing hit a full tire on the turnpike not a retread. The guy was just laying there smacked up against the median wall while they were working on him. Probably some old guy such a shame.

I see chairs, ladders, wheels a couch :) all kinds of crap out there and the normal retreads. Unless the system can handle everything without paying attention 100% of the time it's just a safety issue. You'll get comfortable no matter how much you say you wont and it will work fantastic until the one time that it doesn't.

Me I'd rather not have a life changing event to play with it until it's ready and someone else is liable. So let me know when the sleeping in the back seat release comes :)
I drove around a hitch stinger with ball laying right in the road on I80 last week. It would have destroyed a tire had I hit it and maybe killed us because we were going 58 pulling a trailer with the Y. No way would AP or FSD missed it. It was right where we would have run over it. How many spring potholes did we drive around? 1000?
 
I have a very love - hate relationship with Tesla, AutoPilot and Mr. Musk.

I paid for Advanced AP back in late 2018 and upgraded to FSD when it was on "sale". I am not on the beta.

My general thoughts is there's absolutely no way it's worth $12k or $200/mo in its current form. Tesla/Musk have time and time again promised and failed to deliver. It's such a bummer because when AP works well it's fantastic. But it's so far from what was promised, and I don't know if it will ever get there in the current generation of cars or within my ownership timeline of my current Model 3.

I would honestly consider joining a class action suit against Tesla for false advertising over AP. I also would never recommend it in its current form to anyone I know (or I would at least let them know exactly what to expect)

On the flip side I've used it on trips and commuting and when it works, I love it. It takes a lot of stress off driving...... until it slams on the brakes at 70MPH.
 
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I have a very love - hate relationship with Tesla, AutoPilot and Mr. Musk.

I paid for Advanced AP back in late 2018 and upgraded to FSD when it was on "sale". I am not on the beta.

My general thoughts is there's absolutely no way it's worth $12k or $200/mo in its current form. Tesla/Musk have time and time again promised and failed to deliver. It's such a bummer because when AP works well it's fantastic. But it's so far from what was promised, and I don't know if it will ever get there in the current generation of cars or within my ownership timeline of my current Model 3.

I would honestly consider joining a class action suit against Tesla for false advertising over AP. I also would never recommend it in its current form to anyone I know (or I would at least let them know exactly what to expect)

On the flip side I've used it on trips and commuting and when it works, I love it. It takes a lot of stress off driving...... until it slams on the brakes at 70MPH.

The general consensus on this forum, as far as I can see, is that *EAP* works well, and is worth the money, *IF* it were still being offered as a product by Tesla. Probably for $5K.

FSD, in its current form is not worth the $12K, or the $200/month.

This might change, if FSD starts to be as reliable as the AP. When will we get there?

As someone with deep hardware and software engineering background, especially in semiconductor verification, getting it close to 98-99% reliable will probably take another 3-5 years. Closer to 5 years.
 
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I have a very love - hate relationship with Tesla, AutoPilot and Mr. Musk.

I paid for Advanced AP back in late 2018 and upgraded to FSD when it was on "sale". I am not on the beta.

My general thoughts is there's absolutely no way it's worth $12k or $200/mo in its current form. Tesla/Musk have time and time again promised and failed to deliver. It's such a bummer because when AP works well it's fantastic. But it's so far from what was promised, and I don't know if it will ever get there in the current generation of cars or within my ownership timeline of my current Model 3.

I would honestly consider joining a class action suit against Tesla for false advertising over AP. I also would never recommend it in its current form to anyone I know (or I would at least let them know exactly what to expect)

On the flip side I've used it on trips and commuting and when it works, I love it. It takes a lot of stress off driving...... until it slams on the brakes at 70MPH.
My AP did this yesterday at 80 MPH (That is the speed limit on the road I am driving). It was a bunghole clencher as an 18 wheeler was behind me. How in the heck is this happening? I am enrolled in FSD but still in queue.
 
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Imagine selling FSD to people with the right to have that software continually updated for the rest of their lives. That would be like expecting Macy's to replace the fabric on your sofa and rework the frame as it wears.

Imagine Tesla selling this lifetime software license for a mere $12000. How long before virtually everyone would have a lifetime of FSD and Tesla with no money to fund future development?

If I had to sell on such ridiculous terms, I'd be charging a lot more than the chump change they charge today.
Lots of companies do this, but in a more mature way.

For example:
I own ProductX. It requires HardwareY. I can have a license forever for ProductX on any machine that has HardwareY.
Vendor improves ProductX to X.1. It now has new features that requires HardwareZ. I can be limited in my use now or pay to upgrade to HardwareZ.
I don't expect it to be updated forever, just for the supported life of the hardware it runs on.

Pretty simple.

I already did this with the FSD computer, which wasn't included with my car at the time of purchase. I considered it future proofing.

If we all myopically think that the existing FSD computer will be the same level of tech required for level-5 FSD, you're out of your minds. This thing doesn't recognize or hear emergency vehicles, school zones, or POTHOLES... etc. It has miles (ha!) to go. I won't deny the current computer is close, but you see what I mean. I'm willing to continually invest in the hardware as long as I can transfer that software license to the new car.

Here's another advantage - I want to be brand loyal but Tesla's giving me zero incentive to do so. If your account had a FSD license, would you throw that away to go to another car mfr?

There are hard sells and soft sells. You think that Tesla would lose money by having the license be per-user? I disagree completely -- I for one would buy FSD in a heartbeat if it were tied to my account, even if I had to add to it later... using the example above, if they improved things and I had to buy into that improvement. The reason is that I know my car lasts 5-10 years and I don't want to spend (now) $12k each and every time I get a new car. That's ridiculous. Tesla would gain so much buy-in from the already heavy brand loyalty.

Not to mention that I still to this day think that adding a 12k software license to a car is incredibly amazingly risky when it comes to insurance and coverage and replacements. If your car got totaled, did you lose your software license? It's really kind of nuts.
 
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