[UK] 2023.38

[M1tch]

This is what smart motorways are all about

Mmmmmm, really? Try: 50, 50, 50, (gantry with a camera) 30, 50, 50, 50, 50 (gantry with a camera) 40, 50, 60 end of “smart” motorway and everything goes back to 75.

They are a shambolic failure that has cost us multi trillions of pounds, destroyed national infrastructure to a point it can never recover as someone would have to admit failure and it’s still getting worse.

 

[goRt]

Mmmmmm, really? Try: 50, 50, 50, (gantry with a camera) 30, 50, 50, 50, 50 (gantry with a camera) 40, 50, 60 end of “smart” motorway and everything goes back to 75.

They are a shambolic failure that has cost us multi trillions of pounds, destroyed national infrastructure to a point it can never recover as someone would have to admit failure and it’s still getting worse.

They simply need the average speed feature enabling and your logic falls away.

 

[MrBadger]

Mmmmmm, really? Try: 50, 50, 50, (gantry with a camera) 30, 50, 50, 50, 50 (gantry with a camera) 40, 50, 60 end of “smart” motorway and everything goes back to 75.

I’ve queried the numbers from the system that controls the smart motorway speeds (SMCALO) and been shown the proofs (heat maps) to show that the throughput for the whole motorway section is better than non controlled flow. We have a section of motorway near here that seems to be always be 40mph.

The system optimises for mass vehicle flow and not an individual vehicle. So some vehicles will go slower but they are taking one for the majority of the other road users.

Speeds are also greatly affected by behaviour of some drivers who try and game the system, like those that drive up a faster moving lane then cut in at the last moment which then cause the other lanes to slow to a crawl. If everyone stayed in lane and drove at the constant stated speed then there would be no ad hoc slowing/stopping - the motorway would then flow at its optimum speed.

So if the traffic is stop start, it’s not because of the smart motorway that has suggested the optimum speed for the volume of traffic, but the few individuals around whose driving style is incompatible with facilitating a free flowing motorway.

 

[mick4545]

single tap came on 38.8, looks like you skipped that build!

it arrived for me too, I was looking forward to the single tap AP, hope it’s not been pulled. No release notes not even “Minor Improvements”

 

[M1tch]

They simply need the average speed feature enabling and your logic falls away.

But they install average cameras in a few hours for mile upon mile. It then takes years and years to put gantry’s up, destroy the road surface making zero positive difference.

I don’t mind though, I love paying higher taxes to fund the highways wombles’ desire to spend my cash.

 

[M1tch]

I’ve queried the numbers from the system that controls the smart motorway speeds (SMCALO) and been shown the proofs (heat maps) to show that the throughput for the whole motorway section is better than non controlled flow. We have a section of motorway near here that seems to be always be 40mph.

The system optimises for mass vehicle flow and not an individual vehicle. So some vehicles will go slower but they are taking one for the majority of the other road users.

Speeds are also greatly affected by behaviour of some drivers who try and game the system, like those that drive up a faster moving lane then cut in at the last moment which then cause the other lanes to slow to a crawl. If everyone stayed in lane and drove at the constant stated speed then there would be no ad hoc slowing/stopping - the motorway would then flow at its optimum speed.

So if the traffic is stop start, it’s not because of the smart motorway that has suggested the optimum speed for the volume of traffic, but the few individuals around whose driving style is incompatible with facilitating a free flowing motorway.

I can’t dispute that having not seen the report you have read. Next time your drive on a “smart” motorway, have a look, every gantry with a camera on it has a lower speed than the rest. Why? I don’t know. All I see is a scam. Causes issues, causes the caterpillar effect and is inexplicably horrendous.

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I can’t dispute that having not seen the report you have read. Next time your drive on a “smart” motorway, have a look, every gantry with a camera on it has a lower speed than the rest. Why? I don’t know. All I see is a scam. Causes issues, causes the caterpillar effect and is inexplicably horrendous.

Doesn't happen. What does need to happen is for the system to switch from the occasional camera on the gantries to average speed between each pair, and an instant ban for the drivers who stamp on the brakes at every single gantry whether there's a camera on it or not.

 

[Jason71]

Except learners are allowed on the motorway (under professional instruction) now.
Have to fit ADI board on the roof too

You don't here it mentioned much but "Professional Instructor" was removed from the standard equipment list back in 2021.

 

[M1tch]

Doesn't happen. What does need to happen is for the system to switch from the occasional camera on the gantries to average speed between each pair, and an instant ban for the drivers who stamp on the brakes at every single gantry whether there's a camera on it or not.

Well, it does. Every time. Have a look…..

Or even easier, ban the constantly fluctuating speed limits causing fear and intimidation in every driver worrying if the speed is going to change and take their hard earned money to fund more government backed failed projects….

Anyway, gone off track. Back to 2023.38

 

[WllXM]

I believe there's a big drawback to single pull on 38.9, apparently there is no way to get back to TACC. Moving the steering wheel deactivates both, same with pulling the stalk up...

 

[GRiLLA]

But they install average cameras in a few hours for mile upon mile. It then takes years and years to put gantry’s up, destroy the road surface making zero positive difference.

I don’t mind though, I love paying higher taxes to fund the highways wombles’ desire to spend my cash.

However proper research and data shows that Smart Motorways increase Journey Reliability (i.e. how likely delays are) by 22%.

 

[M1tch]

However proper research and data shows that Smart Motorways increase Journey Reliability (i.e. how likely delays are) by 22%.

As in they reliably delay you by 22%? (Genuinely my findings) - sorry couldn’t resist.

I’ll start a new topic at some point as it’s not fair to take this off topic and a mod will tell me off.

 

[MrBadger]

I can’t dispute that having not seen the report you have read. Next time your drive on a “smart” motorway, have a look, every gantry with a camera on it has a lower speed than the rest. Why? I don’t know. All I see is a scam. Causes issues, causes the caterpillar effect and is inexplicably horrendous.

Probably because some driver has caused a blip in that section and the system is suggesting a revised speed to help clear the issue that that driver caused.

What is needed is to better educate the minority that cause the problem in the first place, rather than more tech to fix the problems that they cause. Going back to what started this conversation, if all cars could stick to the speeds suggested, then everything would flow better, rather than just one human creating chaos behind them that they are completely oblivious to so will carry on doing it. Single human behaviour in less congested parts of the motorway is also a big factor with congestion - if you come across a congested part of the motorway, you will invariably find the cause being a middle lane hog (often a Tesla [or two, they are known to congregate in groups] in these parts of the world I am guessing on autopilot with no lane change), a lorry trying to overtake another lorry, or a traffic officers/highways car on inside lane going 65.

Unfortunately, I don't think speed cameras will help much as its no so much the average speed that the minority are driving at, but the way that they drive.

That said, a electronic sign next to a speed camera showing the number of motorists recorded speeding in last xx hours or even better, part of the number plate of speeders being displayed with a warning would be quite a good deterrent for some imho.

 

[goRt]

Well, it does. Every time. Have a look…..

Or even easier, ban the constantly fluctuating speed limits causing fear and intimidation in every driver worrying if the speed is going to change and take their hard earned money to fund more government backed failed projects….

Anyway, gone off track. Back to 2023.38

Sorry, I've been up and down the M6 a lot recently and this just doesn't happen, the gantries (not y's) are set for consistent speeds based on load and don't drop for the ones with cameras

 

[M1tch]

I’m back to the UK in 3 weeks ish. I’ll share dashcam footage of this on almost every drive

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Or even easier, ban the constantly fluctuating speed limits causing fear and intimidation in every driver worrying if the speed is going to change and take their hard earned money to fund more government backed failed projects….

Fortunately there's a delay between the gantry speed limit changing and the camera becoming active. If it's causing a big problem for you the problem is that you either drive way above the speed limit and don't like having to slow down, or your observation skills are lacking, or both. Half the time the cameras are completely deactivated (eg Leicester), and they're all shown on Waze or Google Maps.

There are definitely some problems with the system (I've been on the M25 where a camera gantry is reading 20 - 30 - 40 - 50 - 60 across five lanes and I've stamped on the brakes to go under it at 20), but in general the evidence is that it improves traffic flow.

As I said the system will be even better when they shift to average speed, but if sticking to speed limits is a problem then it's your fault, not the fault of the cameras.

 

[Dilly]

it arrived for me too, I was looking forward to the single tap AP, hope it’s not been pulled. No release notes not even “Minor Improvements”

Definitely on mine on 38.9.

 

[mick4545]

Definitely on mine on 38.9.

Strange, the notes just say Minor fixes. No notes on the app, just the car.

 

[MrBadger]

Strange, the notes just say Minor fixes. No notes on the app, just the car.

Have you gone back to previous minor version release note?

The main release note only show the changes for that particular version eg 38.9 but if you then select to see all release notes for .38.x then it will show the intermediate ones. Sounds like sone extra functionality was added between 38.6 and 38.9 so you may find the change tucked in amongst those release notes, but you have to go specifically selecting them.

 

[speedyranger74]

Strange, the notes just say Minor fixes. No notes on the app, just the car.

I had the notes, in the app, yesterday evening before to start the installation. The still sleeping, so I don't know what's the situation in the car.