[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[ICE5891]

I agree with you, but to recycle a post I made in an earlier USS thread:

Imagine that you're in charge of Telsa's operations and you have the following options (assuming that the underlying problem is that USS are in short supply across the industry and can't be obtained):
1) Suspend delivery of all vehicles until you can deliver them as specc'd
2) Deliver cars without and prepare for an expensive retrofit program, using your very low capacity service network (vs ICE vehicles that all visit service centres routinely)
3) Recognise that you were dropping this hardware anyway, so drop it a bit early.
(Note that 2 and 3 are the same result to the customer. You can't have USS if they're physically not available, so you'd have had to have had a car without them in a retrofit scenario.)

You'd be insane not to take option 3, with the offer for anyone who doesn't like it to cancel or defer.

I understand your point, still I think they could have communicated it properly.

What is the status of this functionality development? What is the roadmap for its release? Will it be even possible without front bumper / headlight camera? Will they retrofit USS if vision park assist isn't good?

Those are questions we should not be speculating, we should get it from tesla with good transparency. If it would be few weeks is one thing, but as many speculated when it was announced there has been few months already and we still don't know anything.

 

[pgkevet]

You're making the leap that ultrasound units were unavailable as opposed to a failure to have the software done in time or just saving s few £££ and sod the customer.

 

[Js1977]

100% it’s obviously a downgrade but what irks me is people equating the price of a vehicle to what it should have.

It’s got what it’s got voting with your wallet is more effective than debating things you can’t control on a forum - what is there to discuss? Let’s discuss what and when we might be getting rather than creating a no-USS survivors group.

Unfortunately they rely that most people will buy whatever crap they (not only tesla) put out since most cars out there are financed and its whatever best of the crap and best lease/pcp or whatever deal is best at the end of the agreement. For some its just a case of (as silly as it sounds) not being able to afford not to upgrade.

Chip shortage excuse is just a godsend to car makers.....what better excuse to charge the same or more and "give" less... and then when this excuse is no longer viable, you can just upgrade albeit go back to where you once were.

 

[Boza]

Tesla is not the only one to experience shortage of USS chips. However, their comms are the worst (not only about the USS) in that price range and they are the only one to disable features in the existing fleet. Hence, the frustration and loss of trust.

 

[m25nyc]

Let me add my sadness with this removal. I bought the Tesla for FSD beta which truly is wonderful compared to other systems I've tried - works better and on more roads, and city traffic light recognition is amazing on roads like the West Side Highway in NYC which is 5 miles of stop-and-go-and-traffic-lights every few hundred feet, and still the fastest way for a commute to an ultimate destination to the north of NYC where trains don't go. And the availability of working superchargers is great on road trips, I compared with other EV charging networks which are still almost non-existent or broken when you arrive.

Accurate parking distance warnings front and rear are essential for urban parking. Come on, Tesla engineers - do you all live in suburbia with wide parking spots? Do all Tesla senior execs have human drivers? Do none of you live in cities? This is a car that fully configured is $70k where the competition is not a Chevy Bolt but Audi, Lexus, Mercedes.

 

[MashinBenzin]

That’s implying you need a new car to your specification - and then when USS is removed it’s not your spec anyway - that doesn’t sound like a need there are plenty of options.

I’m not implying anything. I am stating that if you’ve had a car on order for several months and it’s delivery aligns with your plans, it’s very difficult to drop that car and select a new one. It’s difficult because there are almost no other new cars available, especially EVs.

Tell us which new EVs are immediately available.

 

[Whyone]

I do, if you don't like what's included in a car regardless of the price don't buy it - simple as.

Oh, if only life was so simple.

I ordered my M3 LR in May....USS's and all that goes with them functionality-wise part of the car at the time.

My car was delivered in late November without USS / Vision functionality. No warning / notification / 'do you want it or not' communication before (or after) delivery.

Rejecting the car is not a tenable option for me as I need to be able to routinely drive 250 miles with 3-4 people in the car due to a very poorly family member.

 

[Whyone]

- what is there to discuss?

Dunno....but you certainly seem to find plenty to get agitated about here!

 

[Mullermn]

You're making the leap that ultrasound units were unavailable as opposed to a failure to have the software done in time or just saving s few £££ and sod the customer.

There have been many posters that have said that there is a genuine shortage of these USS units at present across the industry. I haven’t done any research so don’t claim to know one way or the other.

However, I think the theory that Tesla have dropped the USS simply to save money just doesn’t hold water. We already know that Tesla make 8-9x the profit on each car sold vs other manufacturers and have been selling everything they can make up to this point.They are not in a position of having to scrape for savings of a few hundred dollars a vehicle.

I think it’s a lot more logical that this component shortage happened to line up with where Tesla had decided they were going with their parking functionality anyway, it just forced the timing at an inconvenient moment.

 

[pgkevet]

There have been many posters that have said that there is a genuine shortage of these USS units at present across the industry. I haven’t done any research so don’t claim to know one way or the other.

However, I think the theory that Tesla have dropped the USS simply to save money just doesn’t hold water. We already know that Tesla make 8-9x the profit on each car sold vs other manufacturers and have been selling everything they can make up to this point.They are not in a position of having to scrape for savings of a few hundred dollars a vehicle.

I think it’s a lot more logical that this component shortage happened to line up with where Tesla had decided they were going with their parking functionality anyway, it just forced the timing at an inconvenient moment.

It's not about having to scrape around to make ends meet. It's all about making as much as possible.. greed (or business acumen if you prefer).

 

[SalisburySam]

There have been many posters that have said that there is a genuine shortage of these USS units at present across the industry. I haven’t done any research so don’t claim to know one way or the other.

Yeah, me neither. Total agreement. Don’t really car if I’m honest. I do care about how it affects my car though.

However, I think the theory that Tesla have dropped the USS simply to save money just doesn’t hold water. They are not in a position of having to scrape for savings of a few hundred dollars a vehicle.

Disagree. I believe water is indeed held. Every manufacturer has to always be aggressively looking for ways to cut costs. And they do so by rewarding people handsomely with percent-of-savings awards and/or bonuses for achieving that for certain employee tiers. They may not HAVE to scrape for savings but they absolutely WILL. Further, a $200 cost savings on a single vehicle is a $200,000,000 savings on a million vehicles. That‘s a number that gets bean counter attention whether you’re Tesla, Apple, or ExxonMobil.

I think it’s a lot more logical that this component shortage happened to line up with where Tesla had decided they were going with their parking functionality anyway, it just forced the timing at an inconvenient moment.

My direct knowledge is similar to yours: don’t know. Your thinking could be completely possible, but I’d never discount an increased profit motive for any company, even if for only shareholder satisfaction. While many espouse the purpose of a company is to create value for the customer, far more believe and act like it is to create profits for the ownership. Both can be successful, one is more likely to generate higher buyer satisfaction. Some might argue both are necessary for sustainability. I would place Tesla in the profit camp, at least today. In general when margins are good, they can be better. When margins are great, they could be spectacular. There is no upper limit on margin attractiveness. No margin amount is enough.

 

[Boza]

It is less about the shortage itself (other manufacturers also had that - you can easily Google it); it is more about _how_ they deal with it, mixed with almost lethal dose of hubris. It is not so much cost savings as “USS are useless anyway; we know better”.

 

[Mullermn]

Not saying you’re wrong and I’m right (since we’re both basically guessing) but if Tesla were going all in on just making money, how do you explain FSD? That must be a massive cost centre and also quite a liability unless they are 100% certain they can deliver on its promises.

Funnily enough, the easiest way to make loads of money would be to do what a number of voices on this forum want - strip out the excessive automation and concentrate on pimped out luxury vehicles built on their industry leading drive train.

 

[Kokukenji]

There have been many posters that have said that there is a genuine shortage of these USS units at present across the industry. I haven’t done any research so don’t claim to know one way or the other.

However, I think the theory that Tesla have dropped the USS simply to save money just doesn’t hold water. We already know that Tesla make 8-9x the profit on each car sold vs other manufacturers and have been selling everything they can make up to this point.They are not in a position of having to scrape for savings of a few hundred dollars a vehicle.

I think it’s a lot more logical that this component shortage happened to line up with where Tesla had decided they were going with their parking functionality anyway, it just forced the timing at an inconvenient moment.

I don't think Tesla really knows for 100% which way they are going IMO. I think if we're to look at it from a software developer POV NOT an auto manu's POV it makes more sense. Basically release the product now and fix it later. I also think the bit of saving is a side benefit since it's less workflow for Tesla but for us consumers that is paying the same for technically less, face value (Since we don't know their roadmap) is indeed just that, same, if not more profit for less of a product (Until further notice).

 

[MashinBenzin]

Not saying you’re wrong and I’m right (since we’re both basically guessing) but if Tesla were going all in on just making money, how do you explain FSD? That must be a massive cost centre and also quite a liability unless they are 100% certain they can deliver on its promises.

Funnily enough, the easiest way to make loads of money would be to do what a number of voices on this forum want - strip out the excessive automation and concentrate on pimped out luxury vehicles built on their industry leading drive train.

FSD is just what the whole industry is doing, only Tesla is making a big thing of it as if they’re the only one likely to achieve it. They’re also the only one that charges tens of thousands of dollars for something that doesn’t exist.

They couldn’t build a luxury vehicle - too many features that they won’t pay to develop and too many quality materials that they do not wish to pay for. (Which then makes a Model Y Porsche money rather than Kia money, and who is going to pay that for a Tesla?)

 

[Boza]

Twitter debacle may give you some interesting insights about Tesla (unfortunately). Something happened with the boss 2-3 years ago.

 

[DougMa]

After all the hassle caused after my partner damaged the front quarter of a pervious car, I vowed to never buy a car without front and rear parking sensors. Now I have a Model Y that has parking sensors, but is perfectly happy to kerb its own wheels during self-parking. And a cruise control system that relies on vision without the benefit of radar. And if I bought a direct replacement it would have even fewer sensors.

Cameras cannot see when blinded by the sun, rain, or fog. They cannot see in directions other than those they point. No amount of smart software can solve this.

Unless Telsa change their attitude, this will be my last Tesla.

 

[Mullermn]

They couldn’t build a luxury vehicle - too many features that they won’t pay to develop and too many quality materials that they do not wish to pay for. (Which then makes a Model Y Porsche money rather than Kia money, and who is going to pay that for a Tesla?)

I don’t agree with this interpretation. If Tesla wanted to make a conventional vehicle with the standard array of bells and whistles on top of their battery and motor tech, I can’t see that being that hard. That knowledge exists in the industry already, in abundance. They could just hire it in from any major manufacturer.

The additional USS/conventional rain detectors (assuming they’re available) etc wouldn’t even move the needle on the costs of building one of these cars.

Tesla (as directed by Musk) have other motives. Whether it’s deploying a robo taxi fleet on Earth in the belief that that will make the money from selling cars seem trivial, or whether the company is one giant vehicle for developing solar/battery tech and autonomous transportation for Musk’s proposed retirement home on Mars, who knows.

I do think it is more ambitious than just ‘sell a lot of EVs to make money’ though. Is current consumers are just the necessary source of income to keep the larger venture moving forward.

 

[candida]

Model Y ….is perfectly happy to kerb its own wheels during self-parking.

Wow. Did not know they did this. Really interesting.
Also another reason to delete USS and self park - how can Tesla not be liable for damage the car causes to itself?

 

[Mullermn]

Wow. Did not know they did this. Really interesting.
Also another reason to delete USS and self park - how can Tesla not be liable for damage the car causes to itself?

USS do not detect kerbs - this is specifically stated in the description of their function. Most, if not all self park functions line themselves up with other vehicles and not the kerb. If those vehicles are badly parked then they will happily kerb themselves (ask me how I know).

The TV based function (if/when it arrives) should be far better at this since detecting kerbs is an essential function for self driving.