Update: Model X has a single charger, but only 48A capable

[dhanson865]

I think dhanson just overlooked that the 14-50 is charging at 40A, not the full 48A. HPWC would make up that ~8A difference.

The quote from the DS doesn't specify that and I consider that a flaw in the message. I know this but I think the average non forum goer that sees that email from a DS won't.

From an English writing standpoint I have issues with the way the quoted section implies something it might not have intended.

 

[andrewket]

Model S single charger = 10kW, 40A max. Model X single charger = 12kW, 48A max. The difference is you can buy a second charger for the S and get 20kW and 80A. Big difference.

Yes, the standard X config is marginally better. Offer dual 48A chargers, even if that meant a max of 80A, and the problem goes away. Offer a single charger with 72A, and the problem goes away.

I really wish Tesla wouldn't try this marketing spin.

 

[FlasherZ]

How does hpwc give more mph if the limit is 48 amps? Are they trying to say the UMC is limited to less than 48 amps? If so why not say that? I'm assuming we are limiting the UMC to 40a to follow the 80% continuous load rule. If not a UMC limit what in the world are they trying to say about the speed difference between two EVSEs and the same internal charger?

That's exactly what they're saying. With a UMC, the charging will be limited to 40A, which at the "rated miles" Wh/mi of Model X, is going to be 25 rmph. With an HPWC configured for 60A circuit or greater, it will be limited to 48A, which at the "rated miles" Wh/mi of Model X, is going to be about 30 mph.

 

[TexasEV]

The quote from the DS doesn't specify that and I consider that a flaw in the message. I know this but I think the average non forum goer that sees that email from a DS won't.

From an English writing standpoint I have issues with the way the quoted section implies something it might not have intended.

Anyone who owns a Tesla or who has ordered a Tesla (the recipient of the email) would understand that a 14-50 outlet provides 40A charging. The email from a delivery specialist wasn't directed to a public forum. I don't think it was meant to be understood by someone who hasn't ordered a Tesla-- in other words you were responding to something you knew nothing about. There are lots of problems with the content of the email, but this wording isn't one of them.

 

[AWDtsla]

The 14-50 outlet that the UMC plugs into CAN do 50A, but the UMC will not.

No it cannot, you can only draw 80% continuous load.

 

[Chris TX]

No it cannot, you can only draw 80% continuous load.

I said the 14-50 outlet CAN do 50A. It's a 50A outlet, but the UMC will only draw 40A because it's made to draw it over an hour.

 

[NigelM]

No it cannot, you can only draw 80% continuous load.

Strictly speaking you can draw 50A, but you'll just keep popping the breaker. Code dictates that the source should be 125% of the required continuous draw; most people reverse this to 80% of the circuit for ease of calculation.

[/pedanticism]

 

[MrBoylan]

Anyone who owns a Tesla or who has ordered a Tesla (the recipient of the email) would understand that a 14-50 outlet provides 40A charging.

I ordered my Model X in August of 2013, but wasn't aware that a 14-50 outlet was only capable of 40A output until I read ohmman's reply (thanks, bud, you're really living up to your name, just without all the resistance).

I think it's probably obvious to any current Tesla or EV owners but for me, I haven't really drilled down on the details as I'm sure I'm still several months out from delivery. For our driving habits, we would probably be fine with a standard 30A 220V outlet (though the HPWC definitely has more of the cool factor).

Speaking of which, has anyone put an HPWC outside, in an enclosure? Our garage is too small for a Model X (it's too small for most cars) so I'll be charging outdoors.

 

[JST]

I ordered my Model X in August of 2013, but wasn't aware that a 14-50 outlet was only capable of 40A output until I read ohmman's reply (thanks, bud, you're really living up to your name, just without all the resistance).

I think it's probably obvious to any current Tesla or EV owners but for me, I haven't really drilled down on the details as I'm sure I'm still several months out from delivery. For our driving habits, we would probably be fine with a standard 30A 220V outlet (though the HPWC definitely has more of the cool factor).

Speaking of which, has anyone put an HPWC outside, in an enclosure? Our garage is too small for a Model X (it's too small for most cars) so I'll be charging outdoors.

I have my HPWC outside, not in an enclosure. It's just on the side of my house (no garage or carport). Works fine; it's rated for exterior use.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Speaking of which, has anyone put an HPWC outside, in an enclosure?

Mine's outside; it is its own enclosure. Lots of rain in the last two weeks here!

 

[NigelM]

Speaking of which, has anyone put an HPWC outside, in an enclosure? Our garage is too small for a Model X (it's too small for most cars) so I'll be charging outdoors.

Many people have, and most of the destination program chargers are outside. Try to find a spot that is out of the direct sun and high enough off the ground to avoid water (flooding) or snow build-up. You might find it easier to install an external NEMA 14-50. Searching around TMC you'll find plenty of examples.

 

[MrBoylan]

I have my HPWC outside, not in an enclosure. It's just on the side of my house (no garage or carport). Works fine; it's rated for exterior use.

Cool. Thanks, guys. The pics I've seen of the HPWC all seem to be inside garages, and (from the pics), it looked a little too delicate for extended outdoor use. Happy to hear that's not the case.

 

[yobigd20]

This is part of the email I received from my DS. Doesn't sound like speculation. Disappointing. On the other hand, my guess is that they're not doing this capriciously. Despite the bias of many people choosing to post, sounds like they would argue that it makes good business sense, balancing everything they're trying to do at the moment. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

"The Factory has provided us with an update concerning the charging capabilities of the Model X. The Model X vehicles are the first of their kind. As we begin production, the factory has informed us that they may make adjustments to the design and build of Model X to make sure they meet Tesla’s high standards. One such change being the on-board charger:

Model X has been designed with a single 12kW on-board charger capable of drawing a maximum of 48 amps. This represents a 20% improvement over the capabilities of our 10kW on-board chargers in Model S and is more than twice the power most EV’s can draw today. When connected to a NEMA 14-50, Model X will use its on-board charger to charge at approximately 25 miles/hour.

Higher amperage Wall Connectors (such as those found at our Destination Charging locations) will provide a recharge speed of approximately 30 miles per hour. This change will have no impact on Supercharging capabilities, as Supercharging bypasses the on-board AC charger to deliver DC-to-DC charging to the battery.

The reason these changes have been made is based on the extensive feedback from today's Model S owners. With the feedback owners have provided, Tesla knows that the 48A charging is more than enough for daily driving habits. We also believe that buying a Tesla should be easy and intuitive. By eliminating the confusing “Dual Charger” option on Model X altogether we will simplify the way customers understand daily charging and create a smoother buying process for everyone."

It took me a second to process that. I was wondering why charging on an MX at 40A only yields you 25mph vs the MS 29mph and then I realized the the MX is much less efficient aka it takes more energy to drive the same distance.

Anyway if this single charger thing is all true, max 30mph on HPWC due to single onboard charger, this rules out any future MX purchase by me since it can't keep up to my daily usage. This is a terrible terrible design decision by Tesla. Tesla just seems to disappoint over and over again. WTF is going on over there. Elon, your decision makers over there suck. Please fire them and hire competent folks that make common sense decisions. It's not that hard, really.

 

[Cyclone]

Cool. Thanks, guys. The pics I've seen of the HPWC all seem to be inside garages, and (from the pics), it looked a little too delicate for extended outdoor use. Happy to hear that's not the case.

Not a problem for it to be outdoors.

 

[dhanson865]

Anyone who owns a Tesla or who has ordered a Tesla (the recipient of the email) would understand that a 14-50 outlet provides 40A charging. The email from a delivery specialist wasn't directed to a public forum. I don't think it was meant to be understood by someone who hasn't ordered a Tesla-- in other words you were responding to something you knew nothing about. There are lots of problems with the content of the email, but this wording isn't one of them.

I really don't know why people think you have to own or use a product to "know anything about it". I find "in other words you were responding to something you knew nothing about" to be offensive.

I have a 14-50 outlet in my garage and use it to charge my car on a daily basis. I can assure you I knew it's limitations years in advance of me owning an EV. I specifically installed the circuit so that If I got a Tesla down the road I'd be ready for it.

OMG I didn't own a Tesla, I must be an idiot that doesn't understand technology. I must sit in my underwear drinking gasoline and staring at electrical outlets like they are magic.

Really the elitism on this board is over the top sometimes.

 

[Tam]

Cool.

Sample pictures of outdoor HPWC:


Tesla HPWC is on the left of the wooden pole, all exposed to outdoor nature elements of Yosemite National Park, CA

8 outdoor HPWC at Hawthorne Tesla Design Center in Hawthorne, CA

Multiple HPWC in the open at Service Center in San Diego, CA

 

[MrBoylan]

Cool. Thanks for those. I saw some in a couple of other threads as well. We don't see too many of them thar fancy chargers in the wild in New York City. Leaning toward HWPC at home and 14-50 at the cabin. Haven't figured out what to do when visiting my parents yet, but may be able to get by with 120V there.

 

[JST]

It took me a second to process that. I was wondering why charging on an MX at 40A only yields you 25mph vs the MS 29mph and then I realized the the MX is much less efficient aka it takes more energy to drive the same distance.

Anyway if this single charger thing is all true, max 30mph on HPWC due to single onboard charger, this rules out any future MX purchase by me since it can't keep up to my daily usage. This is a terrible terrible design decision by Tesla. Tesla just seems to disappoint over and over again. WTF is going on over there. Elon, your decision makers over there suck. Please fire them and hire competent folks that make common sense decisions. It's not that hard, really.

I understand that there may be a potential supplier issue, but it is a bit mystifying that they can't just double up Model S chargers they way they do for the Model S (even on a temporary basis while they get this worked out). Perhaps there really is something to the space constraint rumor.

 

[Cosmacelf]

It's just hugely disappointing that the Sports Utility Vehicle is ending up having less, you know, utility, than the Model S. Less rear flat storage. Significantly less AC charging. Less range. We still don't know the actual towing capabilities since they haven't released any real specs. Does the tow package come with a better cooling system? Any indication on range hit when towing? About the only thing the Model X has that the S doesn't is some kind of towing and seating for 7 adults. As I said, disappointing.

 

[ohmman]

It's just hugely disappointing that the Sports Utility Vehicle is ending up having less, you know, utility, than the Model S. Less rear flat storage. Significantly less AC charging. Less range. We still don't know the actual towing capabilities since they haven't released any real specs. Does the tow package come with a better cooling system? Any indication on range hit when towing? About the only thing the Model X has that the S doesn't is some kind of towing and seating for 7 adults. As I said, disappointing.

I think it's going to be a great vehicle for its purpose - which I am slowly starting to realize is a medium range people mover. That gives them a huge list of potential buyers, so I think it'll succeed. I am also starting to believe that getting serious inroads into China have been prioritized in the design of the vehicle. I'm not really all that familiar with the Chinese market, but from what I understand the MX should do quite well, and likely better than the MS over there.

I was speaking with a friend at a party this weekend. She's a potential MX buyer, and I recommended it. I pointed out the things that are making me waver, and they're completely not an issue for her and her family. When I tried to explain my issues, the best I could come up with is this - I'm spoiled with the MS. It's everything a car should be and more. For some reason I expected another utilitarian home run from Tesla, and that's probably an unfair expectation for a young company. They have their own priorities, and I'm not one of them. :wink: