scottf200
Well-Known Member
Title: ChicagoNext Chairman Mark Tebbe Got One of the First Tesla Model X SUVs
http://chicagoinno.streetwise.co/20...ebbe-got-one-of-the-first-tesla-model-x-suvs/
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Title: ChicagoNext Chairman Mark Tebbe Got One of the First Tesla Model X SUVs
http://chicagoinno.streetwise.co/20...ebbe-got-one-of-the-first-tesla-model-x-suvs/
I disagree. Multiple Signature reservation holders have independently confirmed this information from their DSs. Unless you think the DSs are speculating...
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
The majority of the DSs have likely not even sat in an X.
I wish the specs would just be released and put this kind of speculation to rest. I suspect there are still a couple of small surprises to come (based on absolutely no knowledge, just a swag) & when the very first Sigs are delivered, all specs will be published.
And until the specs are released, there should be a messaging doc out to all the DS. Heck, to all customer-facing employees. Just a simple doc -- do you give out info about production before it's officially in their record? Basic info on charging so people can prepare.
Thank you Bonnie. I was getting confused between that Mark and @MarkZ on TMC. So one of the Founders X owners has confirmed he has 72A charging. That is good news. It's not 80A like my S with dual chargers, but it's close enough.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
+1
I'd also add that many Chademo locations are unreliable and/or expensive compared to the price per KW of charging at home.
Being able to charge at home is a sure thing, charging on the road is hit and miss (other than at supercharger locations).
There's speculation and then there's the communications mess.
Speculation is when we are purely guessing as to what Tesla is going to do.
I wouldn't call this thread/information speculation, though. This information came from a source I consider to be very reliable (it's not just a DS or inside sales). As I understand, it was an update that occured early Thursday, and communication went out to DS's and inside sales on the update. When multiple sig owners are telling you that their DS's are now saying 48A instead of 72A, it's because of that communication. It was a formal e-mail sent to me by someone who works in the charging team there.
Now, the reason as to why it happened is speculation.
There's no doubt in my mind that @MTebbe could have a 72A charger in his car. That's not a closed-book guarantee that the volume production X's will be 72A, and in fact it fits the narrative that a supplier problem exists that is pushing Tesla to switch suppliers (perhaps simply leveraging the Model S chargers) - and THAT is the speculation.
(...and frankly I would *love* to be wrong here, and they get the wrinkles with a higher-current supplier ironed out, and my car ships with it. In the meantime, though, the spec published to DS's and inside sales is 48A.)
Speculation is when we are purely guessing as to what Tesla is going to do.
I wouldn't call this thread/information speculation, though. This information came from a source I consider to be very reliable (it's not just a DS or inside sales). As I understand, it was an update that occured early Thursday, and communication went out to DS's and inside sales on the update. When multiple sig owners are telling you that their DS's are now saying 48A instead of 72A, it's because of that communication. It was a formal e-mail sent to me by someone who works in the charging team there.
Now, the reason as to why it happened is speculation.
There's no doubt in my mind that @MTebbe could have a 72A charger in his car. That's not a closed-book guarantee that the volume production X's will be 72A, and in fact it fits the narrative that a supplier problem exists that is pushing Tesla to switch suppliers (perhaps simply leveraging the Model S chargers) - and THAT is the speculation.
(...and frankly I would *love* to be wrong here, and they get the wrinkles with a higher-current supplier ironed out, and my car ships with it. In the meantime, though, the spec published to DS's and inside sales is 48A.)
(Also, I suppose there is a possibility that Tesla is intentionally trying to spread uncertainty and/or misinformation for whatever reason, but I consider that so remote as to not give it anything more than a fleeting thought. I still can't get out of my head a comedic scene - a lot of employees sitting around the social area saying the equivalent of 'hold my beer, watch this...' and propagate some random wrong fact to watch us get spun up.)
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This was not a delivery specialist or inside sales. It was also reconfirmed through follow-up questions that I posed. The reason I was informed is that I must make some pretty significant investments to my electrical infrastructure to prepare for two high-current charging loads compared to one, and have already been considering updates to the FAQ (in my signature, below).
In my opinion, there's a higher probability that @MTebbe's car has a 72A charger due to it being a very early car built in non-production volume with small-batch parts than the probability of this being some product of miscommunication. I would love to be wrong, though.
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This was not a delivery specialist or inside sales. It was also reconfirmed through follow-up questions that I posed. The reason I was informed is that I must make some pretty significant investments to my electrical infrastructure to prepare for two high-current charging loads compared to one, and have already been considering updates to the FAQ (in my signature, below).
In my opinion, there's a higher probability that @MTebbe's car has a 72A charger due to it being a very early car built in non-production volume with small-batch parts than the probability of this being some product of miscommunication. I would love to be wrong, though.
Unfortunately, I think Craig is most likely correct. The first founder's cars have a single charger with 72A. Then something happened; supplier problem, or testing showed an issue. Rather than delay the vehicle they went with a single 48A charger for production.
The question now is how long will it take Tesla to correct the issue and begin to offer a single 72A charger? The second question is if you opt for the 48, can you upgrade later to the 72?
I will likely delay my X until the 72A is available, or an offer from Tesla to retrofit to 72 when it becomes available.
Charging is fundamental to an EV. This isn't like waiting for a feature.
The question now is how long will it take Tesla to correct the issue and begin to offer a single 72A charger? The second question is if you opt for the 48, can you upgrade later to the 72?
I will likely delay my X until the 72A is available, or an offer from Tesla to retrofit to 72 when it becomes available.
Charging is fundamental to an EV. This isn't like waiting for a feature.
djp
Model 3 Performance
If it's a supplier issue and Tesla still intends to deliver 72A chargers, then they should make it an option. Start by building 48A cars for those who order the smaller charger, and phase in the 72A orders as the parts come on line.
There are a number of folks in this thread discounting how often one needs >48A charging. Very similarly, there were those in the Model X Seats threads downplaying how often one really needed to fold down the second row of seats.
What such arguments fail to account for is that the impact a given feature depends not only on frequency of usage, but the criticality of each usage. Examples (for my circumstances):
-Low frequency/Low criticality: Coat hooks. I only need them on occasion, but not having them does not prevent me from folding my coat and carrying it elsewhere in the car. Low impact
-High frequency/Low criticality: Door pocket storage. I carry papers/items all the time ideally suited to a door pocket, as opposed to the center open area. However, despite frequent need, I can ultimately carry them somewhere. Low impact
-Low frequency/High criticality: I occasionally have need to turn my car around within a few hours and need another significant amount of range. Having 80A charging ability allows this without significant route deviation that would make the schedule unworkable otherwise. High impact
-High frequency/High criticality: I commute ~70 miles round trip every day to a location that does not have L2 charging available, often in sub-freezing temperatures. A vehicle with battery pack rated at 70-80 miles wouldn't allow that. High impact
Given that everybody's requirements vary, what I'd suggest is that that the "How often do you really need..." arguments may not be what they appear to be on the surface.
I don't need fire extinguishers often... but I have two in my home.
What such arguments fail to account for is that the impact a given feature depends not only on frequency of usage, but the criticality of each usage. Examples (for my circumstances):
-Low frequency/Low criticality: Coat hooks. I only need them on occasion, but not having them does not prevent me from folding my coat and carrying it elsewhere in the car. Low impact
-High frequency/Low criticality: Door pocket storage. I carry papers/items all the time ideally suited to a door pocket, as opposed to the center open area. However, despite frequent need, I can ultimately carry them somewhere. Low impact
-Low frequency/High criticality: I occasionally have need to turn my car around within a few hours and need another significant amount of range. Having 80A charging ability allows this without significant route deviation that would make the schedule unworkable otherwise. High impact
-High frequency/High criticality: I commute ~70 miles round trip every day to a location that does not have L2 charging available, often in sub-freezing temperatures. A vehicle with battery pack rated at 70-80 miles wouldn't allow that. High impact
Given that everybody's requirements vary, what I'd suggest is that that the "How often do you really need..." arguments may not be what they appear to be on the surface.
I don't need fire extinguishers often... but I have two in my home.
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That's not a good arguement though. It's only impactful for a single person.
Now assuming the Founders is different than all future MX's (unlikely), the simple fact of the matter is that Tesla had to make some sort of compromise in place of dual chargers or a higher single charger. Just like how the HEPA filter cut down on frunk length (most likely), some other compromise was needed if the charger is weaker.
Are your situations impactful? Sure. But the impact for the overall average person is much, much less than the hundreds of thousands of super-wealthy Chinese who already pay arm and leg for clean breathable air.
Are no folding seats impactful? Sure. But the number of people impacted by this is far less than a much larger number of wealth individuals who buy the ultimate people movers and don't haul dirty plywood around in their CUV, or if they do have a third car available for such purposes.
Keep in mind that for every Tesla buyer now, there's at least one econo-EV driver out there charging at 3.3-6.6kw at fastest at home. For every person who drives over 250 miles in a day without any stopping or rest locally, there are thousands who charge off 110v outlets at home solely and never run into issues. And I know someone will use the "but Leaf drivers usually have a second car!" argument, though to me that seems silly given the financial differences between most Tesla owners and most Leaf owners.
Tesla has more information about their drivers than any other auto company in the world. It's no different than how Apple won't cater to a large number of fringe cases (SD cards, removable batteries, flash support), but they seem to be doing quite well. Tesla is building EVs that cater to a general world market, not fringe cases, and that's why they're such a successful business.
And again, this is all 100% speculation because a Founder confirmed the higher single charger. Not only do they manufacture this component in-house, but this same next-generation charger will also likely become part of next-generation superchargers. Tesla has a huge number of reasons to invest in a much more powerful charger. They're rolling out liquid-cooled cables, and I think there's a pretty good possibility that the 72 amp charger is part of achieving their publicly known charging speed goals.
O-G
Member
This whole issue could have been easily avoided if Tesla had simply said "We are having XXXXXX issue with our 72A charger, (technical, supply, etc.). We will temporarily be installing a 48A charger until the XXXXXX problem is resolved at which time the original 72A charger will be reinstalled".
After all, we are not talking about a lot of vehicles at this point. Instead, we get this bombshell dropped on us with no additional information.
After all, we are not talking about a lot of vehicles at this point. Instead, we get this bombshell dropped on us with no additional information.
I would trade one falcon wing for a 72A charger and both for an 80A. I would throw in auto presenting front doors as well.
These gimmick features do not support Tesla's mission and vision of transitioning the world to sustainable transport, downgrading from 80A charger does exactly the opposite!
48A will be a significant disappointment, especially considering the fact that we had to pay $2k to wire the garage for HPWC (it was a big job).
These gimmick features do not support Tesla's mission and vision of transitioning the world to sustainable transport, downgrading from 80A charger does exactly the opposite!
48A will be a significant disappointment, especially considering the fact that we had to pay $2k to wire the garage for HPWC (it was a big job).
CmdrThor
Active Member
I would live with 30A charging before giving up the Falcon Doors. To each their own. The Falcon Doors will be much better for me and my family (one child seat now, probably another in the future). My EVSE I already have in my garage supports 30A. We will have 2 EVs, but since I can charge at work I'm not sure having two plugs in the garage will be worth it, and I can likely live with one 30 amp plug.
Mark Z
Active Member
The advantage of 72 or 80 amp AC charging during travel can be illustrated by this example. If I need to make a stop and charge for 2 hours, I can enjoy a long meal and feel I haven't wasted much time for the next drive. But if it takes 4 hours, it would seem like missing a plane at the airport and being stuck. Will I end up shopping with a long stop? That depends on the location. The secret to this is to plan your road trips in detail, knowing the charging facilities and the amenities in advance.
One other thought that mirrors some earlier comments. Would you rather have a half dozen NEMA 14-50 outlets at a destination charge location, or one or two 80 Amp HPWC? Depends on usage. If six Tesla EVs arrive at the same time, those 6 NEMA 14-50 would be a very friendly option. If 4 of the Tesla's have 40 amp chargers at the HPWC location, I might start looking for an RV park. For now, driving Supercharger highways will help you relax. Anything else needs careful planning and extra time to reach your destination if a low amperage EVSE is busy.
One other thought that mirrors some earlier comments. Would you rather have a half dozen NEMA 14-50 outlets at a destination charge location, or one or two 80 Amp HPWC? Depends on usage. If six Tesla EVs arrive at the same time, those 6 NEMA 14-50 would be a very friendly option. If 4 of the Tesla's have 40 amp chargers at the HPWC location, I might start looking for an RV park. For now, driving Supercharger highways will help you relax. Anything else needs careful planning and extra time to reach your destination if a low amperage EVSE is busy.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
For the purposes of Tesla's current policy though, it does make a difference. With your clarification, it seems the policy where they switched to store install remains true.
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