I agree that the announcement was misleading. I'm not sure it was intentional as some believe but we will likely never know. If they do provide a below market price upgrade for A pack owners then that would be a reasonable solution.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Upgrade for 90 limited "A Packs" : Official answer from Jerome Guillen, VP WWSS TM
- Thread starter joefee
- Start date
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
How many threads and how many thousand posts have we had on this topic now?
Summary: it sucks to have an A battery. It would be nice if Tesla gave people with an A battery a discount if and when they make battery upgrades available (with change in rules for zero emission credits I doubt we'll see a battery changing station any time soon and therefore am less optimistic we'll see a "market offering" for battery swaps).
But bigger picture this is not the huge deal that some people are trying to create out of it. As happens so often with Tesla the language was misleading, the announcements were overly optimistic and lacking some small print. But would you rather drive an ICE? Or a Leaf? No. So let's relax.
I have an A battery. The one time I did an extended trip in my car and used Superchargers (4 of them), I didn't have to wait a single extra minute to charge. I was either eating, taking breaks or talking to people while the car charged. Not a single minute was spent waiting for the car to finish charging (of course, I never charged to full capacity at a Supercharger either, didn't need to).
Now, YMMV, but really, this is pretty minor.
I understand that they promised 120kW charging, but I chalk that up to a chaotic startup mentality. Thankfully, Tesla doesn't have a cumbersome product management process to introduce new changes. The good is that we have product changes quickly, the bad is communication issues.
There are a LOT of improvements from the early cars to the latest ones. The battery is just one of the many differences.
Now, YMMV, but really, this is pretty minor.
I understand that they promised 120kW charging, but I chalk that up to a chaotic startup mentality. Thankfully, Tesla doesn't have a cumbersome product management process to introduce new changes. The good is that we have product changes quickly, the bad is communication issues.
There are a LOT of improvements from the early cars to the latest ones. The battery is just one of the many differences.
Actually matches my timeline and color exactly and I received the A pack. So ironically (see jerry33 post and wiki), in that time frame you might have been more likely to receive the B pack with a different color and earlier delivery. I.e. You got lucky!
This in no way stops them from releasing only 5.9.a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h (i.e. < 6.x) firmware updates for every car that has been delivered to date. Using the same logic that has been applied to the A/B pack discussion.
- - - Updated - - -
Just some polite feedback: I suspect your intent was to motivate people to "relax" but what you've said here provokes the exact opposite response from me. Take from that what you will.
Telling people what is a huge deal (to you) and what should or shouldn't be a huge deal to them is, IMO, "unhelpful" at best.
It's kind of like telling your significant other that he/she shouldn't be upset. It triggers a visceral "you don't own my feelings" response but very rarely worded as such.
There is one simple way how tesla could resolve this 'issue': Step back to 90kW supercharging for all cars.
Dress it in "fair treatment of customers and improved battery lifetime" and all will be happy.
Or not?
Dress it in "fair treatment of customers and improved battery lifetime" and all will be happy.
Or not?
While I don't think they should do this (I'm not into "make it suck for everyone, equally" race-to-the-bottom solutions), it would be amusing to see how the "A Angst Critics" react after a month of 90 kW limited charging (and the same taper that A packs are seeing).
Well the make everyone happy solution at this point is offering all A pack owners a free upgrade to B packs or above. I'm not sure that is practical at this point regardless of how Tesla worded their Supercharger upgrade roll out. Those words have already been gone over multiple times. Tesla knows people are concerned about this and if a software update can't fix this issue for A packs then we can only wait and hope Tesla offers that proposed below market rate trade in program for A packs.
Sorry but I disagree with that. The upgrade shouldn't be free, there should be some prorated cost for mileage and I'm not sure that anyone would reasonably argue with that.
Anyone needing a free and/or immediate upgrade to be happy is destined for a long stretch of unhappiness. I do not think most A owners have this expectation. The reason this topic always draws a barrage of bitterness is the communications issue, because it's a violation of principles. Having said that, if I were in Tesla's shoes, not sure how I'd play it differently. Start up company needs to sell cars to survive, not attract bad press with a parts drama. If they had formally communicated the slight difference, every hater out there would pick it up, exaggerate, and magnify.
I agree I was just saying the only solution that would make everyone happy. If it's not free, someone will complain.
A program where the people are really bothered by it for whatever reason where they can turn in their old pack and buy the new one for some prorated amount would be a fair option. I'm not sure how Tesla should have communicated it differently either. Let's assume they didn't realize the difference until production of B packs had started but they still have a few hundred A packs left. Do they announce this and write off a few million dollars in packs? Do they give option of an A pack but a discount which would make others angry? Do they announce the B pack and then have people refuse delivery if their car arrives with an A pack? I agree they might have handled this better but not exactly sure how. If they already had a grid storage portion of the business up and running to battery swap going they might have been able to just use them there but they don't. I doubt Tesla would have knowingly continued to produce A packs once they knew the difference unless they had a few million dollars in cells that were already purchased and they couldn't return.
Last edited:
I was pointing out that if it is free for some then those that don't get a free battery will complain. Probably won't find a solution that makes everyone happy.
In this case all A packs would get replaced if the customer wanted it but then you'll have people with old B packs and some degradation complain that someone got a free upgrade in range. You're right, they can't win here.
roblab
Active Member
The problem seems to me that everyone is simply assuming that B packs are better because they are able to charge at 120 kW for a few minutes every month.
No one knows if that is better, or not. Probably Tesla is still collecting data.
There are other parameters. While doing our charge off, it seemed that the B packs went up to 120 for a short while and then began to taper off, dropping to lower charge rate than the A packs. It seemed that the A packs charged at a higher rate for almost half the time, although never enough to catch up to the quick charge jump that the B packs got. That's why the A packs were able to keep from losing more minutes than they did.
But obviously there are a lot of A packs out there where the owners are not upset enough to demand a new pack. We do not know whether the A packs will degrade more slowly, thereby lasting longer before needing replacement. We do not know if A packs are more robust in other ways, or not. We are just assuming that B packs must be better, simply because you can save a few minutes on a Supercharger a few times a month.
I would not jump at a chance to trade, because I don't know what I'm getting in return.
I'm willing to wait and see. Tesla is not some sleazy auto company who is only out to take your money. They are out to change the world, and usually seem to try to make things right. Sure, they screw up, the communication is a problem, but really, the company is only a couple years old. I want to give them the benefit, at least until we know a little more.
This communication thing ... it is not up to what owners wish for, but still there IS at least some communication.
How much communication you get from Porsche, BMW, Nissan about your current vehicle and available improvements, variations in production etc?
In my previous car they could not even say what disk-brake set fits my car without tearing it apart ...
How much communication you get from Porsche, BMW, Nissan about your current vehicle and available improvements, variations in production etc?
In my previous car they could not even say what disk-brake set fits my car without tearing it apart ...
I agree. Let this play out over time and once we know more, those that are really concerned about a few extra minutes during a supercharge will be better informed and can ask for what they think is fair. Tesla would likely be less battery constrained as well. I have an A pack and unless Tesla just decided to give a free upgrade I doubt I'd pay for the upgrade. I don't Supercharge enough to make even a ten min difference worth it for me personally. Years from now if a 110kWh pack was available that also have 135kW charging then I could see paying for that.
Similar threads
