Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[Cyclone]

I understand your need is for today. You made the right choice for now. Perhaps Tesla Motors can give you good trade-in value on a new Tesla Truck when and if offered. Until then, I hope others who need a truck will consider the VIA VTRUX when and if it is available in the future. VIA Motors | Extended-Range Electric Truck 402HP/100mpg

Via had a running truck at Charlotte's NDEW Event. It was a pretty sweet ride and if I was looking for a truck, I would definitely be interested.

 

[primetime]

Letting Go

Al, Nigel, and others - I know what a tough decision this has been. And I know (from some personal discussions) how many things you considered along the 'how do I make this work' line of thinking. You're not really letting go , you're only delaying until it's the right vehicle for you and your needs.

I have to say Bonnie, I'm sorry I didn't get to go to the event to meet you personally, because I have to admit it's comments like this that make me enjoy reading the posts in the first place. I think you've stuck the right note and hit the nail on the head. I would've loved folded seats but it's not a deal breaker. There have been times in my current SUV( GL 320) that I've been very fortunate they fold, but I can't imagine I'm losing as much space and these situations have become further and further apart. I'm sure Al, Nigel, Paul and the others will rejoin the Tesla family soon (or continue to stay not sure who already has an S and who doesn't I forget!), as if there's one thing I've seen from Tesla it's that they don't take steps backwards rather they take huge leaps forward even with these seeming missteps of Falcon Wings and 2nd rows I think the car is just out of this world great. Even my wife loves it and was pleasantly surprised by all the details, I think the Tesla family will definitely continue to grow from this and I admire pioneers like those you listed, others and yourself for taking the step that made it easy for me to put down my deposit on my own Signature which is coming soon I'm sure (got the configuration e-mail this week and it confirms next week). I don't know my place in line anymore because of cancellations I'm sure it's slightly higher, though I hate that that is the reason. Any way I've Rambled On too long. Looking forward to more posts and hope that those who have dropped out of line don't drop out of the forum because your input as early adopters has been invaluable and inspiring to a newbie like me who's own wait while long isn't nearly as long as yours has been.

All the best keep the posts coming its what makes Tesla so great, I've never been as invested in a car and part of the reasons is people like you.

Tony

 

[Blastphemy]

If it was my decision, our Model X production reservation would already be cancelled. Not because of the folding seats (which I don't care about) or falcon wing doors (which I love), but because of the overall height and size. The Model X looks like a fat Model S, not a proper-sized SUV.

What I was hoping for was an EV equivalent to the Infiniti JX (now QX60):

What I don't understand is that the Model X is about half an inch longer than the QX60, is almost five inches wider than the QX60, and is only about 4 inches shorter than the QX60. And yet the QX60 feels bigger, more comfortable for adults in the third row, and much higher off the ground for better visibility than the Model X. Why is that?

Since this will be my wife's car, the reservation will not be cancelled... at least not until Tesla tells us Production 5,000 will be delivered later than May 2016. Then we go shopping for something else (or purchase our "Baby Tesla" 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV for about $25k when the lease is up).

 

[tonyinc]

So please forgive my less than great graphics skills, but the measurements stated here are pretty vague, IMO. The 50" with seats back would, I presume, represent the measure from the back of the X to the lower back of the 2nd row when upright. But what's less clear and more important, I think, is the second measurement quoted (60"). I am assuming that the 2nd row base moves forward 10" to get to the 60", but it is important to figure in the additional space provided by the forward tilting of the 2nd row seat. Certainly if you have something that you're hauling that is 70" and is the full height of the interior of the X, then it won't fit. but there are lots of things (shovels and lamps) that could easily fit even if they are 70", 80", or 90" if propped up on the back of the seat and/or placed in diagonally across the back area. Even a flat long box like a flat screen TV would fit this way even if longer than 60". Someone who's seen the X in person, am I off base here? That is the impression I got watching the reveal. Would be nice if Tesla would post some actual interior dimensions I guess.
View attachment 96441

From these images, it does not look like they fold forward too much, it just looks like it when they are in action because they start tilted backwards.
You are correct! Tesla should post the dimensions and any other finalized specs! Also the hatch back slopes so there is less length at the roofline not more.

 

[efusco]

From these images, it does not look like they fold forward too much, it just looks like it when they are in action because they start tilted backwards.
You are correct! Tesla should post the dimensions and any other finalized specs! Also the hatch back slopes so there is less length at the roofline not more.

Ah, helpful. I think you're right. It may be more that the top of the seat back dimension, esp. with the slopped hatch, could be as little as 40", then the tilt brings it to an even 60".

 

[FrankOT564]

Look people this is a 100K+ SUV it is not meant to carry dirty wood logs around. If you want to carry around wood logs or something, you buy a crappy used SUV to do that. When you do house work, paint, etc, do you wear a suit and a tie? NO. This car is like your suit that you go to a VIP party with. This is the car where you take your family + friends and seat all them comfortably to take it so some evening gathering. And if you want to pick up larger items that Model S can't, this will. Some people here are confused little bit...

 

[scottf200]

From these images, it does not look like they fold forward too much, it just looks like it when they are in action because they start tilted backwards.

Stops early because of car seats, IMO.

 

[simplejack]

I think Tesla knew exactly what they were doing by changing the 2nd row seats to not be folding down seats and instead be more functional for soccer moms.

Tesla has turned this car into the ULTIMATE SOCCER MOM SUV. I have observed many people express disappointment about the 2nd row seats not folding down...it is a fair disappointment as at the Model X reveal the 2nd row seats folded down then. However, I have not observed any soccer moms' disappointment of the car. I have a few young kids that my wife is psyched to have this SUV to use, the friends I have with young kids also are psyched to get this SUV...
+To soccer moms, the X is Utility to extreme
-To men(and women) wanting to carry big things around a lot the X is not,

Two different audiences and it is very difficult to be everything to both audiences, Tesla decided to focus on women for this X which I agree with as being the right strategic thing for them to do.

My point is, for every forum member on here who's justifiably disappointed and cancelling their X reservation, there are 10 new soccer moms who are learning about the X for the first time from the news or friends and starting to make plans to reserve an X for their next car.

Why choose one over the other? Sure, there's a lot of people lined up to buy, but why not have more people? I'll never get this line of thinking that, hey don't worry it's a Tesla everyone else will want one if you don't.

Why not have the cool second row seats that the soccer moms like AND have them fold down? Seems to me that's a pretty good solution, especially when every other competitor in the segment can do this.....

I would submit that the % of people saying they have or will cancel due to the second row seats not folding like originally shown is not insignificant. I'm sure Tesla is working on a solution to capture these sales, but since they are so strong at communication we'll never know until they just "appear".

 

[tonyinc]

Stops early because of car seats, IMO.

Could be...
Why oh why does Tesla not release specs? It seems from these forums, lots of long time posters with low reservation numbers are cancelling. If there is some light Tesla could shed, that would be great. The car has launched after all correct!?

 

[donv]

They do sell it, at least in the US (and I'm guessing Canada). It's called a Mercedes Benz Sprinter.

Seriously, I will be buying one today if they sell the V-Class in Canada. Just absolutely perfect for my business needs.

I was really hoping that Tesla can come up with a similar solution. Maybe the removable seat is too much to ask, but at least make the 2nd row either fold or rotate. How difficult is that?

 

[FrankOT564]

Could be...
Why oh why does Tesla not release specs? It seems from these forums, lots of long time posters with low reservation numbers are cancelling. If there is some light Tesla could shed, that would be great. The car has launched after all correct!?

I think specs apply to less than 1% of Tesla Community. Especially if primary buyers are women... they wouldn't know what to make of those numbers.

Look at their reservation page: Safety, Safety, Safety.

For example: "

• Four LATCH child seat attachments, two in each passenger row"

I have never seen a general spec page with that information on any car. You could only find that info with all ICE cars in a manual.

 

[ohmman]

Especially if primary buyers are women... they wouldn't know what to make of those numbers.

...really? Wow.

 

[trils0n]

I think specs apply to less than 1% of Tesla Community. Especially if primary buyers are women... they wouldn't know what to make of those numbers.

Ugh, that was totally unnecessary. Please refrain from stereotypes and putting people down.

 

[AnOutsider]

Look people this is a 100K+ SUV it is not meant to carry dirty wood logs around. If you want to carry around wood logs or something, you buy a crappy used SUV to do that. When you do house work, paint, etc, do you wear a suit and a tie? NO. This car is like your suit that you go to a VIP party with. This is the car where you take your family + friends and seat all them comfortably to take it so some evening gathering. And if you want to pick up larger items that Model S can't, this will. Some people here are confused little bit...

You may be the one a bit confused here. From the measurements we've seen here, the Model S can actually haul larger items. The Model X's height may mean it has more volume, but the S is the one that can carry things the X can't.

As for what goes in the car... Well, that's been hashed over several times, but I don't think it wise to dictate to others what they should and should not do with the vehicle they spent 6 figures on.

 

[simplejack]

Look people this is a 100K+ SUV it is not meant to carry dirty wood logs around. If you want to carry around wood logs or something, you buy a crappy used SUV to do that. When you do house work, paint, etc, do you wear a suit and a tie? NO. This car is like your suit that you go to a VIP party with. This is the car where you take your family + friends and seat all them comfortably to take it so some evening gathering. And if you want to pick up larger items that Model S can't, this will. Some people here are confused little bit...

Well, I planned to carry steam cleaned logs only in my X, there will be no dirt on them whatsoever.

 

[PoweredByRain]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ohmman again."

I've seen that message a few times as well!

 

[MrBoylan]

...But what's less clear and more important, I think, is the second measurement quoted (60"). I am assuming that the 2nd row base moves forward 10" to get to the 60", but it is important to figure in the additional space provided by the forward tilting of the 2nd row seat.

The 60" was from just inside the back hatch to the bottom of the folded forward second row, as you said. There's not a huge amount of tilt when the seat is all the way forward, but I'd estimate you get an additional 4 or 5 inches to the top of that second row seat. Kicking myself a little for not bringing a measuring tape but I was standing next to a guy who was doing the measurements and can confirm the 60" number is to the bottom of the slid forward 2nd row seat with the 3rd row folded flat.

-CB

 

[tonyinc]

I think specs apply to less than 1% of Tesla Community. Especially if primary buyers are women... they wouldn't know what to make of those numbers.

Look at their reservation page: Safety, Safety, Safety.

For example: "

• Four LATCH child seat attachments, two in each passenger row"

I have never seen a general spec page with that information on any car. You could only find that info with all ICE cars in a manual.

What? Insulting women much? Besides, you are wrong, all cars ICE and Tesla publish a spec list:
Model S Specifications | Tesla Motors

 

[mnx]

They do sell it, at least in the US (and I'm guessing Canada). It's called a Mercedes Benz Sprinter.

This is pretty off topic, but the V class is the luxury version of the Vito which is a mid size van. It comes to North America this month and is called the Metris. The Sprinter is a full size van and is much larger.

 

[simplejack]

Not necessarily true in Tesla's first MX market, though. US safety regulations tend to be way stricter than those found in Europe. I can't buy, import, or legally drive a Twizzy in NA also due to safety regulations, and the Twizzy is the only way to get an electric car that's as cheap as a regular ICE vehicle.

I should have clarified that it was in the US market. There almost certainly has to be some sort of engineering challenge in fitting all of the following in one vehicle: seat-attached seatbelts, a 5-star safety rating around the board, Falcon wing doors, independently moving seats, single-pedestal seats, and folding seats all in one vehicle. Something had to be dropped to accomplish all of the above. The falcon wing doors and 5-star safety ratings are un-droppable for Tesla for the MX. There are good reasons (storage space, independent movement) to keep the single pedestal on the vehicle.

Tesla isn't stupid, as of today Tesla has no feasible way to design all of the above, so rather than drop the uniquely-Tesla features, they decided to drop a feature you can find on every other vehicle. That's that. If it breaks your deal, you're more than welcome to go with the hundreds of other models with folding second row seats. You won't get any of the unique MX features because, with current engineering challenges, it very much looks like you cannot make second row folding seats while simultaneously keeping the MX as a MX.

Not to mention features like cooled/ventilated second row seats, and second row seat quality.

You don't get Tesla grins from folding seats, you get it from industry-breaking falcon-winged doors and independently moving seats. I'm sure Tesla will someday have folding second row seats, either as a dumbed-down bench seat or through engineering advances, but they don't want the first impression of their most luxurious and adventurous vehicle to date fall short on said adventurous promises.

The MX is probably the only vehicle I can think of that has kept crazy concept-car features into production, and other automakers are going to take notice.

How many Suburbans/Tahoes/Denalis do you think were produced in the previous version from 2007 - 2014? They all had integrated belts in the second row that folded. Maybe the safety regulations changed as they have moved them to the body in 2015, but let's not act like this is some old lap belt style set up that no one ever uses.