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What are people that bought Full FSD doing?
- Thread starter johnmodely
- Start date
UserAnon99
Member
I don't think you can count FSD as a total loss because it does transfer with the car. Much like any feature on any car that is an automatic increase in trade-in / resale value. I bought a used M3P and specifically sought out FSD during my purchase because I didn't want to bother w/ the subscription model. So while it does suck that it isn't owner attached I don't think its 100% a wash either because you will get some of that back too. It wasn't even close to a 15K price difference however on a used car between one that had it and one that did not. Had I bought a new M3P would I have dropped 15K on it? Likely not, just being honest.
Do I love it? Not really. It is beta in all ways anything ever has been. But I'm remaining cautiously optimistic that at some future time it will do what it initially claimed. I find myself using EAP / NoA far more than full on FSD primarily because even in my short amount of time with it I've seen it do some things that were somewhere between alarming and straight up unsafe. If you understand its current limitations and "optimal use case" you can wring some value out of it. Middle of the night, uncrowded roads, etc. it does what I expect it to do. I live in the DC area and if you attempted FSD in downtown DC in rush hour you'd likely find yourself in big trouble.
Do I love it? Not really. It is beta in all ways anything ever has been. But I'm remaining cautiously optimistic that at some future time it will do what it initially claimed. I find myself using EAP / NoA far more than full on FSD primarily because even in my short amount of time with it I've seen it do some things that were somewhere between alarming and straight up unsafe. If you understand its current limitations and "optimal use case" you can wring some value out of it. Middle of the night, uncrowded roads, etc. it does what I expect it to do. I live in the DC area and if you attempted FSD in downtown DC in rush hour you'd likely find yourself in big trouble.
I have no idea how someone can down vote my experience.
For myself.. yes. Glad I tried it on my first M3, but it’s not working well enough for me to buy it again. (I just got a new M3 without it). If they get working reasonably well, I’ll update cars. I don’t expect my current car will necessarily have the best HW, cameras, sensors, etc before they get it working well.
dbldwn02
Active Member
I think when it becomes worthwhile (L4+), the monthly price will increase significantly. And when that happens, your monthly rent for FSD won't be applied to purchase if you decide to go that route. This is just my uneducated guess though.
Breakeven is 6 years, IF they don't raise the price of the monthly subscription...and why wouldn't they as they add more features?
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dbldwn02
Active Member
Not me...I like my car the way it is...6 years later. FSD ($3k) is still useless to me but the rest of the car is still great.
Plus, Tesla is on the hook to provide me hardware/software upgrades until it checks all the boxes of the 2016 Full Self Driving description, not the 2018+ watered down "FSD" description. I know they'll give up on delivering one day, but it'll be interesting to see how they toe this line, in the meantime.
For reference this is what was promised for 2016-2018 FSD.
Tesla announces all production cars now have fully self-driving hardware
Once again our readers guessed it right (well 40% of you). You said that today’s announcement would be about Autopilot...
electrek.co
In stark contrast here is what is being promised for 2023 FSD...
_______________________________________________________________
Full Self-Driving Capability
$15,000- All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot
- Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
Coming Soon
- Autosteer on city streets
______________________________________________________________________
So...stop light and city street auto steer for $15k or $200/month? Hahaha...no.
I mean, they even specifically call out the fact that the car is not autonomous and has no promise that it ever will be. How it can still be called FSD, is beyond me.
I bought FSD at 12k. Ordered March of 22 took delivery June 22.
At 12k the break even was 5 years, it protected me from increase in subscription cost, and I had planned to keep the vehicle at least 5 years. So I don't regret buying although at 15k I would pass on it because break even is too long
Right now I have taken the car in six times for a clunk in the front wnd though and after a week they still can't figure out what it is. My 21 LR was great but the 22 P has been frustrating to own so far.
For those financing their purchase the nice thing about the subscription is that if you need to cut costs due to job loss or other financial strain you can cancel the sub and save $200 a month. If I was buying another one today I would go with the sub for sure.
At 12k the break even was 5 years, it protected me from increase in subscription cost, and I had planned to keep the vehicle at least 5 years. So I don't regret buying although at 15k I would pass on it because break even is too long
Right now I have taken the car in six times for a clunk in the front wnd though and after a week they still can't figure out what it is. My 21 LR was great but the 22 P has been frustrating to own so far.
For those financing their purchase the nice thing about the subscription is that if you need to cut costs due to job loss or other financial strain you can cancel the sub and save $200 a month. If I was buying another one today I would go with the sub for sure.
EVRider-FL
Active Member
You’re probably right, but given that I won’t keep the car for more than 4-5 years and L4+ is a long way off, I’m not going to spend more than $9k on a subscription.
Regarding your front end clunk. Had similiar on my 2017 Model S. Turned out to be several suspension related bolts that were not torqued down to full spec. Caused a knocking sound under certain conditions. (example: low speed turns then suspension would decompress as I'd go over at low speed say, a pothole or recessed area in the road/parking lot, then quick compression as the wheel exited the pothole/recessed area. Or, when I'd enter, exit my driveway ramp at lower speeds with wheels turned at certain angle).
I've learned over the years (not just this car) but having various suspension nuts/bolts not tightened fully to spec, can definitely cause weird knocks from the front end
lynnpt2001
Cookie Monster MX & M3
A good attorney and enough people could have grounds today for a class action lawsuit. Many people I know with FSD believe they were sold a bill of goods that we can almost validate now will not come to fruition based on the intro to Hardware 4.0 and the fact that tesla announced you will not be receiving any upgrades to allow your car to accomplish FSD as promised at point of sale.
I have learned as many of you that Tesla does not always deliver, FSD, auto wipers, auto high beam, non of these function well enough to be considered safe to use on a daily basis.
Maybe HW4 will get closer to FSD, but I will not buy another Tesla under any pretencse that it will drive itself.
I have learned as many of you that Tesla does not always deliver, FSD, auto wipers, auto high beam, non of these function well enough to be considered safe to use on a daily basis.
Maybe HW4 will get closer to FSD, but I will not buy another Tesla under any pretencse that it will drive itself.
Been hearing the same thing for years. Where's the people and good attorneys? Where were they years ago?
Some people may want to check their state's statute of limitations for breach of contract lawsuits. My state has a four-year time limit from the point of contract breach to bring action. For those who claim that they were promised robotaxis or L4/5 capability by the end of 2019 might want to start shopping around for a lawyer soon. Four years will be up at the end of 2023.
EVRider-FL
Active Member
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Elon's predictions don't constitute a contract.
I am also not acting in the capacity of a lawyer to anyone here and take no position either way. But there are plenty of posters here that claim that Tesla has failed to meet contractual obligations with regard to specific FSD capabilities. For them, failing to take legal action in a timely manner may invalidate any claim they might have.
Similarly, waiting for someone else to act on their behalf to initiate a class action and receive satisfactory recompense may be a pipe dream.
Time will tell won’t it?
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/KSCT5NYCZFOHBEKW3X7IYKZN5A.jpg)
Tesla is sued by drivers over alleged false Autopilot, Full Self-Driving claims
Tesla Inc was sued on Wednesday in a proposed class action accusing Elon Musk's electric car company of misleading the public by falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features.
www.reuters.com
Also….it’s more than just “predictions” included in evidence…example
techcrunch.com
I believe this is called “being complicit”…
Musk oversaw misleading 2016 video saying Tesla drove itself | TechCrunch
According to emails viewed by Bloomberg, Musk told Autopilot team to open promo video saying the car is driving itself.
techcrunch.com
I believe this is called “being complicit”…
Well, that was a great read. Wow what a difference. I ordered the Model 3 LR in 2016 and waited 3 years for it. (Australia) . It arrived in 2019 Dec. Was very happy with it! Then bought FSD when it was $10,200 . Had FSD beta for a while, that was removed. So not much has happened regarding FSD in Australia, and not even sure if we will ever see the FSD , as in a production version release , ever, or even a FSD beta that can handle phantom braking etc and city / highway driving without intervention, using the HW3 hardware. (And no upgrade path to HW4 on existing HW3 fleet possible according to Tesla- so was the statement made in 2016 / 2018 above real? Did it influence me to pay for FSD? Yes ! thats why I bought it - Did it deliver what it promised? No. Will I ever get it in my HW3 car? Not looking like it . Do I love the car ? Yes ! Am I happy with what was promised, regarding FSD , but not delivered ? Nope. ps. Thanks for posting your information.Not me...I like my car the way it is...6 years later. FSD ($3k) is still useless to me but the rest of the car is still great.
Plus, Tesla is on the hook to provide me hardware/software upgrades until it checks all the boxes of the 2016 Full Self Driving description, not the 2018+ watered down "FSD" description. I know they'll give up on delivering one day, but it'll be interesting to see how they toe this line, in the meantime.
For reference this is what was promised for 2016-2018 FSD.
Tesla announces all production cars now have fully self-driving hardware
Once again our readers guessed it right (well 40% of you). You said that today’s announcement would be about Autopilot...
In stark contrast here is what is being promised for 2023 FSD...
_______________________________________________________________
Full Self-Driving Capability
$15,000
- All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot
- Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
Coming Soon
The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
- Autosteer on city streets
______________________________________________________________________
So...stop light and city street auto steer for $15k or $200/month? Hahaha...no.
I mean, they even specifically call out the fact that the car is not autonomous and has no promise that it ever will be. How it can still be called FSD, is beyond me.
TresLA
Member
To each their own, but a lot of it depends on the expectations you had. We are still enjoying our 2018 Model 3 w FSD Capability package and enrolled in FSD beta. We’ve since gotten rid of the other (ICE) vehicle and have a 2022 Model 3 Performance also w FSD Capability package and FSD beta. We don’t plan to sell either for years to come.
Even back in 2018, I expressed and expected “sleep in the backseat” autonomous driving to be pretty far off. So we aren’t disappointed. We use FSD beta and NoA pretty much every drive (except when I want to manually drive for fun or am in a rush). It’s helpful, safer than driving without, and hard to imagine owning a car without it again. It’s all about expectations and (like all useful tools), know how and when they should be used.
EVRider-FL
Active Member
I didn’t say Elon was immune from legal action, but it’s still not breach of contract, legally speaking.Time will tell won’t it?
Tesla is sued by drivers over alleged false Autopilot, Full Self-Driving claims
Tesla Inc was sued on Wednesday in a proposed class action accusing Elon Musk's electric car company of misleading the public by falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features.
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