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What's up with HPWC?

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Yea that doesn't sound like a legal installation. I would withhold payment until it is done correctly (and passed inspection). I used 3-3-3-5 copper SER to feed my subpanel from a 100A breaker on my main panel. My inspection will be early next week, hope I pass! :)

SER cable can be used as a feeder, however there is one restriction. If, at any point, it passes within or through thermal insulation, you have to use the 60 degree column, making that cable only good for 85A (see 338.10(B)(4)(a)).
 
Sorry about the torrent of posts, but trying to address each case independently.

A final note: the Code is fairly conservative, but it is law in most jurisdictions - and in some areas, violation is a misdemeanor (beyond a simple citation). Personally, I believe that a #2 NM cable should be sufficient for the application. Using #4 for 100A is stretching it a bit, but should be safe in most cases. With all of that said, the Code represents what's legal and not (along with local amendments) and failing to comply may result in liability and insurance implications.

Finally, the AHJ (inspector / inspector's chief / and anyone else in the appeals process including court) is the only person whose opinion matters for a specific case. The NEC is a book of guidelines that is usually adopted locally (by municipality, county, state) - there is no national adoption. Many localities amend the code when adopting it (for example, Chicagoland required that residential electrical work be done in conduit as a result of union lobbying). In the end, if your inspector is comfortable with it and gives you the green-tag, you're good to go - even if I tell you here that it's an illegal install by-the-book.

Some inspectors will red-tag some of this stuff, some just look at their job as just "a job" and don't pay that much attention. Good luck. :)
 
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This is also an illegal install if that subpanel contains a 100A breaker for a wall connector configured to 80A. It is legal only if the wall connector is configured for the 72A charging setting on a 90A breaker. See the same section in the FAQ mentioned in the post directly above.

However, I will say that many inspectors will pass the configuration, and since the inspector's opinion is the only one that matters, good luck with it. :) Most of the local inspectors I've talked to will red-tag #2 NM cable in an application requiring 100A.

2/3 cable is rated to 95A when installed per art 334. Many electricians say "yeah, it's only going to be charging at 80A though!!!" and neglect to read one of the most basic articles of the Code (210) which says the conductor must be rated at not less than 125% of continuous loads. 80 * 125% = 100A. Conductors that are rated less than 100A don't qualify.

I don't have an HPWC, just a sub panel 100A and then a nema 14-50 50A from the sub panel. If I add the HPWC it will be only for convenience and dialed down to 60A to use the max 48A in the new charger.
 
SER cable can be used as a feeder, however there is one restriction. If, at any point, it passes within or through thermal insulation, you have to use the 60 degree column, making that cable only good for 85A (see 338.10(B)(4)(a)).

The cable is 6' long and goes through two wall studs only. There is insulation in that wall (between my kitchen and garage) but I've cleared it out around that area. I'll clear out some more before the inspection.

IMG_9822.JPG


Main panel is on the left, 3-3-3-5 SER out the bottom of the main panel and in the bottom of the sub panel. 1" EMT out the top of the sub panel goes to the HPWC.
 
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I don't have an HPWC, just a sub panel 100A and then a nema 14-50 50A from the sub panel. If I add the HPWC it will be only for convenience and dialed down to 60A to use the max 48A in the new charger.

You should be good, then - the maximum calculated load on that subpanel is going to be 95A (and not 100A), even though the subpanel is rated for it and the breaker is permitted to be 100A in your main panel (next-size-up breaker rule). Note that if you install the HPWC on that subpanel, it has to be "unlikely" that the NEMA 14-50 and HPWC would be used at the same time (220.61, coincidental loads rule).

The cable is 6' long and goes through two wall studs only. There is insulation in that wall (between my kitchen and garage) but I've cleared it out around that area. I'll clear out some more before the inspection.

You should be ok with that configuration from an NEC standpoint.
 
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I did the same, website said 3 weeks so I called the SC they said they where out of stock but put me on hold to check, turns out they had just gotten a shipment and I was able to pick my HPWC up the same day!! Just waiting for So Cal Edison to prove the TOU meter for my 100 amp now.
 
I did the same, website said 3 weeks so I called the SC they said they where out of stock but put me on hold to check, turns out they had just gotten a shipment and I was able to pick my HPWC up the same day!! Just waiting for So Cal Edison to prove the TOU meter for my 100 amp now.

Mine was delivered in 9 days from the date I ordered.
View attachment 180451 Got my HPWC install done today..now waiting for the Gecko Hose Clamps recommended by @systemcrashed to get delivered so the install gets its final touches.
And thanks to @CmdrThor for the tip to call local SC for the HPWC so I didn't have to wait three weeks.
I got the geckos toes too (2 of them). One observation I have is although the HPWC top recess is suited to hang the wire but when doing so the wire would rub against the wall and the HPWC surface a lot more. in my case I dont like the cable banging against the hollow drywall making thud sounds and also picking up some of the white paint from the garage walls. Got to figure out a better solution. I do think the geckos tows create some gap between the wall and the cable to alleviate this problem. I may even consider getting the tesla cable organizer/holder and have about 8 feet of the cable in 1 loop ready to take out and put back daily without any movement (and hence rubbing against the wall) of the remaining 16 feet of the cable.
 
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Guys and gals, without me searching throughout the forums, is there any advantages beyond looks for the HPWC vs NEMA 14-50 plugs if my MX has the 48 A charger? Just trying to figure cost versus convenience of having to plug in the NEMA cord versus just pulling the HPWC to the car. Thanks
 
Guys and gals, without me searching throughout the forums, is there any advantages beyond looks for the HPWC vs NEMA 14-50 plugs if my MX has the 48 A charger? Just trying to figure cost versus convenience of having to plug in the NEMA cord versus just pulling the HPWC to the car. Thanks
48A with HPWC vs. 40A charging with 14-50. You have to decide if that's an advantage to you. The cars will fully charge overnight either way. But you wouldn't have to plug in the cord-- most people leave in plugged in and hang the cord on the wall with a bicycle hook or something similar. You only unplug it and take it with you if you're traveling out of town.
 
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Guys and gals, without me searching throughout the forums, is there any advantages beyond looks for the HPWC vs NEMA 14-50 plugs if my MX has the 48 A charger? Just trying to figure cost versus convenience of having to plug in the NEMA cord versus just pulling the HPWC to the car. Thanks
I have a 14-50 in my garage, and I'm contemplating a wall connector for a few reasons:

  • Being able to always leave the mobile connector in the car in case of emergency
  • The mobile connector projects out from the plug a bit; I worry about my kids bumping or pulling it out often
  • Having to figure out a way to "mount" the main part of the mobile connector to the wall anyway
  • We're in the early planning stages of a new home (next year or two). I'll definitely have a 100A circuit with a wall connector there. So if I'm getting one eventually, why not now? When we move, I'll just remove the wall connector and put the 14-50 back.
 
48A with HPWC vs. 40A charging with 14-50. You have to decide if that's an advantage to you. The cars will fully charge overnight either way. But you wouldn't have to plug in the cord-- most people leave in plugged in and hang the cord on the wall with a bicycle hook or something similar. You only unplug it and take it with you if you're traveling out of town.
I guess that depends on if the circuit is run already. In my situation it's a 50A circuit. I'll still only be charging at 40A, even with a wall connector.
 
Guys and gals, without me searching throughout the forums, is there any advantages beyond looks for the HPWC vs NEMA 14-50 plugs if my MX has the 48 A charger? Just trying to figure cost versus convenience of having to plug in the NEMA cord versus just pulling the HPWC to the car. Thanks
@jsollender - IMO - I don't see any benefit. I got the HPWC installed now as my X has 72a charger and I want to utilize my TOU rates to the max. My S still charges full overnight using the 14-50 NEMA. I have actually never bothered to take the cable with me when we did trips with the S. You don't need the cable at supercharges and majority of the other public chargers have a cable to which you attach the J1772 adapter that came in the bag and plug in.
 
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Understanding this. So @TexasEV a 14-50 does not allow charging at 48 A? I thought the amperage was dependent on the fuse for the circuit, such that a 60 Amp fuse/circuit breaker/whatever you call it allows peak of 60 amps but sustained at 75% which is why the cars charge at 48 Amp. Just like a 100 Amp circuit allows the 72Amp charger upgrade to work. Are you right that the 14-50 does not allow 48 Amp through it?
 
Understanding this. So @TexasEV a 14-50 does not allow charging at 48 A? I thought the amperage was dependent on the fuse for the circuit, such that a 60 Amp fuse/circuit breaker/whatever you call it allows peak of 60 amps but sustained at 75% which is why the cars charge at 48 Amp. Just like a 100 Amp circuit allows the 72Amp charger upgrade to work. Are you right that the 14-50 does not allow 48 Amp through it?
Sustained charging load = 80% rated amperage of 50amps = 40Amps. But experts could chime in for more details. Summoning @FlasherZ ... @ccutrer ...

This thread kind of addresses this question
How many amps can the Model S pull from a NEMA 14-50?
I don't know how @dhrivnak was able to pull more than 40amps. I thought the UMC would max out at 40amps let aside the NEMA 14-50 breaker (50amp) being the limiting factor.
 
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NEMA 14-50 needs to be installed with 50A breaker ... maximum charging is 40A. I have installed the Wall Charger and I have a 48A Model X. I don't see a huge advantage over using the 14-50 besides more organized with the Wall Charger and slightly faster. If you plan to get another Tesla in the future, it will be a big benefit to have 2 Wall Chargers as master/slave. In that case, why not get one for now ...

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/US/charging_pdf_40amp_1450.pdf