I paid $5k and $4k for FSD on my 2 cars
I use it 95% of the time when on highways, rarely on surface streets.
I find it relaxing to use, but I wouldnt pay $12k for it
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$12K for FSD is insane
- Thread starter bjrosen
- Start date
I use it 95% of the time when on highways, rarely on surface streets.
I find it relaxing to use, but I wouldnt pay $12k for it
With the exception that the other modification actually work. My friend paid $6k for FSD in 2017. Now he's ready to change the car....so wasted money.
its unfortunate that FSD cant be transferred to a new vehicle since its just turning on some software. That fact is a main reason that I am keeping my P3D and not trading it in for a MY. That and the fact that I have FUSC on the M3.
I just took my first long road trip and I had a different experience than you did. Traveled from the upper part of NJ to the western part of NC
On the way there, the AP worked surprisingly well and managed what I thought would be the difficult parts (the DC beltway) basically flawlessly. With that being said, the weather was clear and dry.
On the way back, the weather was rainy (ranging from a drizzle to steady rain). While I had instances of braking (the message on the screen was that the AP speed was limited due to visibility) I was impressed with how well it managed. There were times when I had difficulties seeing the lines on the road due to the rain and glare.
The main changes that I would make would be these:
1) Allow it to accelerate faster when the car in front either moves out of the way or suddenly speeds up
2) Have it slow down more gradually as it approaches a slow car
3) Have it re-engage the autosteer automatically after entering the new lane. My mom's new (but very basically optioned) Suburu does this. Given the price differential in cars, I think this is going to eventually be something that has to work its way to the free AP version
As far as I could tell (looking at the energy meter), when the car did slow, it did it via regenerative braking.
johnmodely
Member
What your paying for is both the future software and hardware required for FSD...Elon has made it pretty clear that's the case and they have already upgraded Hardware 2-2.5 cars to 3 that have paid for FSD.
If real FSD requires HW 4/upgraded cameras im sure they'll upgrade. Problem was it was easy with the small number of cars that had older hardware in the past, now its in the millions so might be more incentive for Tesla to finally allow FSD transfers to new cars.
Im sure it would be way more cost effective to offer some sort of FSD + extra trade in credit to HW4 cars than to actually retrofit millions of HW3 cars.
When Tesla pre-announced HW4 by saying they were working on it,
Musk was asked why it would be necessary at all if HW3 could already do "FSD",
and all that it (ambiguously, as it's a misnomer) means.
He replied during the presentation, after prompting by another Tesla executive
that HW4 could also do FSD, but might be "safer".
This statement leaves plenty of room for having millions of HW3 cars on
the road doing whatever they can do to assist the driver, and future cars
(e.g. Cybertruck) with HW4 doing somewhat more.
P.S. Aside (personal bias) -- I bought FSD on sale for $5K as an L2-assist
enabler, not for robotaxi use. I think it (10.8.1 "FSD beta" so far) is worth it
for what it does. Would I pay $12K as a Model 3 driver? I'm not sure,
but I think they could just blend it in to the ASAP as a standard feature
on all new Teslas and rename it "Tesla Vision" to save face.
Musk was asked why it would be necessary at all if HW3 could already do "FSD",
and all that it (ambiguously, as it's a misnomer) means.
He replied during the presentation, after prompting by another Tesla executive
that HW4 could also do FSD, but might be "safer".
This statement leaves plenty of room for having millions of HW3 cars on
the road doing whatever they can do to assist the driver, and future cars
(e.g. Cybertruck) with HW4 doing somewhat more.
P.S. Aside (personal bias) -- I bought FSD on sale for $5K as an L2-assist
enabler, not for robotaxi use. I think it (10.8.1 "FSD beta" so far) is worth it
for what it does. Would I pay $12K as a Model 3 driver? I'm not sure,
but I think they could just blend it in to the ASAP as a standard feature
on all new Teslas and rename it "Tesla Vision" to save face.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
HW3 is supposed to be capable of FSD Robotaxi which Elon expect to happen later this year. I think HW3 is predicted to be 2-3x safer than a human and HW4 is predicted to be 10x safer.
2-3x safer than the average human actually sounds very good. 10x safer doesn't even sound possible to me as even the best drivers can't avoid every bad driver on the road. It will be interesting to see what the strategy is with regards to supporting both HW3 and HW4.
But 95% of what you are using on highways, is the functionality included in free AP
So remove those features and put them into the fsd suite like ford and gm plan to do and then suddenly the Tesla is no longer “ripping you off for 12k”….
Which raises the point that all these posts about what one did or didn't pay for FSD aren't that helpful unless we know what baseline (no AP, basic AP, EAP) that's referenced from. Since I paid $5K for EAP (there was no basic AP in early 2018) on my M3 and then $2K for EAP-to-FSD, do I say here I paid for FSD $2K, $7K (5+2) or $3-4K (assuming AP for "free" had some value baked into the price increase of the car?So remove those features and put them into the fsd suite like ford and gm plan to do and then suddenly the Tesla is no longer “ripping you off for 12k”….
And if Tesla takes away basic AP, and makes you once again pay for AP or EAP as the cost of entry, say $7K, how many of the folks here who wouldn't buy FSD for $12K (AP->FSD) would be willing to pay $3-5K for it incrementally from AP/EAP?
I'd say you paid $7k. We did the same on several cars with EAP/FSD back in 2016-2018.
We don't plan on buying FSD for full price ever again but would gladly buy EAP again with auto lane change.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So was HW2.5
And HW2.
None of them were (including HW3 far as anyone can tell from use of compute)
HW4 may or may not be "enough"
Until they actually make L4+ work, they have no idea how much HW is needed to make it work. Nobody does.
The way I see it, this is just mind games. The same way they claim autopilot is 2x safer than driver alone, but we know what they really mean is autopilot with L2 supervision on the highway is 2x safer than human alone.
I would pay up to $5k for the non-city driving features in FSD. (i.e. auto lane change, navigate on autopilot and autopark, summons) I don't care about summons, but I'm a big fan of NAP and autopark for parallel parking.
I'd be happier if it was only $3k, or really happy if they just included those features in the base price.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That's basically how it was prior to ~March 2019.
EAP gave you all those things for 5k, then FSD was another 3k on top.
Everyone complained they just wanted a BASIC autopilot and didn't like paying 5k.
So Tesla changed it, splitting out basic AP in one package (now included with the car but originally just a cheaper separate purchase) and all the extra stuff in the new FSD package priced 6k initially.
Tesla gave folks what they were asking for.
Now folks are asking for the opposite
No matter which way Tesla does it you'll end up with some people who preferred the other way.
Neither group is "wrong" but expecting Tesla to accommodate every possible preference in feature pricing probably is.
strider
Active Member
I have it in writing from my Ford dealer that they will charge me MSRP, same as Tesla. Will they move my order behind someone else who paid a markup? Maybe. But Tesla also moves orders around and prioritizes cars that have more expensive options. They are currently in the process of jerking around hundreds of people with Refresh Model X orders regarding forced seating configuration changes and charging some people $6,500 and giving it to others for free. It's a mess.
So yes, dealers suck, but Tesla can suck it up with the best of them.
That's about the only way I'd consider it (and I know it's not going to happen, at the same time). I do not expect FSD to be good enough, ever, on my 2021 M3, so I wasn't going to buy it and hope that before EOL for the vehicle it gets there. If it was something you could buy into at any of the previous price points and just "keep" for future vehicles, well, that'd be a different story and I would actually consider it. Definitely staying with an EV, but unsure if 5-10 years from now I'll stick with Tesla or not. Love the car but they really do a lot of boneheaded things that makes me wish for better competition in the market.
$5k for the current set of features would be a waste. Idk if you've used Tesla's autopark implentation, but it's so slow...goes back and forth a million times and you just piss off people around you/look dumb. You might as well just park yourself.
NoA in it's current production implementation is not good either. Fails with most on/off ramps, unless they are very gradual and straight. With FSD Beta, NoA uses beta FSD Beta for on/off ramps and it is WAY better. I would pay money for NoA if it used the FSD Beta code for on-ramp off-ramps.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
See what I mean?
It WAS 5k for the first 2.5 years of being offered
When's the last time you used it?
A few updates ago they finally actually updated it after years of stagnation--- it now no longer requires parking between two other cars, because it's now vision based instead of just using the ultrasonics....so it can park between just 2 lines now.
And while it's not FAST, it's a halfway reasonable speed now and I actually use it occasionally now unlike the previous version I never used except when a newbie asked to see it park itself.
I guess value is in the eye of the beholder. I use autopark for parallel parking and it does a better job than I can. It might be slow, but it makes it one go. I usually miss on the first attempt.
I'm also a fan of NOA. I suppose I could live without automatic on/off ramps, but I wouldn't want to give up the automatic lane changing. I will note that I don't typically drive in rush hour traffic, so perhaps I'd feel differently if I did.
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