Excellent. Guess that puts to rest claims that the rated range is influenced by driving patterns or changing environment.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Excellent. Guess that puts to rest claims that the rated range is influenced by driving patterns or changing environment.
I'm pretty sure that pack capacity changes with pack temperature, so there should be a small change from summer to winter (in those places that have summer and winter). However, driving patterns have never been part of it.
Likewise, there could also be the argument that driving very aggressively results in less kWh being drawn from the pack and therefore the car believes it has less capacity than it actually does.
No, you have to look at the variables. So if it's pack_capacity / constant, then you look at how the car detects pack_capacity. Is it strictly voltage? That sounds fishy to me, because voltage curves aren't linear.
I have pretty definitively demonstrated the seasonality of rated_range, it has a relatively tight correlation with ambient temperature -- it's not perfect, but I have found no other correlations that match. I even attempted a correlation with trailing driving style (based on deriving Wh/mi - sum of kWh into the car in a given period divided by the number of miles driven in that period), which has a loose correlation with temperature, but that correlation falls apart above 50 degF / 10 deg C where the "winter penalty" flattens out.
Right now, my rated range is continuing to increase on my car at 90% SOC as spring is approaching. If temperature isn't influencing pack capacity calculations, then I have a magic battery pack that borrows range in the spring through summer, and donates it back starting in autumn through winter.
My RR at 90% has gone up by 2RM over the past few weeks. While I believed your analysis, it's nice to see it in action on my own car, heh.
Are any 90D owners seeing their RR at 90% start to creep up? Could your "losses" be accounted for by weather alone?
Mine went up 1.5 to 2 rated miles since the last update. There have been no fluctuations in temperature in my area so my assumption is there was a change in the algorithm that accounts for it.
So what is the constant? On my 6 day old 85D's Monroney sticker, it shows 270 rated miles at 340wh/mi. That equates to a battery capacity of 91.8kWh. Obviously that isn't right, so what does the 340 number represent?
BertL
Active Member
My personal opinion, for the right or wrong of it is Tesla is using the 85kWh as the baseline as that is the one cited on the EPA site last time I looked, so it's probably "official", whereas the 90kWh when first announced had the marketing "6% additional" statement vs anything officially accepted by the EPA, the trade press, or whoever thinks they are an authoritative figure beyond Tesla's POV... There are other threads where Tesla used or perhaps changed other measurements for things they thought were OK but got into lots of debate with enthusiasts here on TMC for example, so maybe -- just maybe -- Tesla chose to just leave their rated range stats on the pages with what they had, vs potentially stir up a bunch of new controversy. Really, anyone can debate it both ways, and I've mentioned my view many times in this thread, so won't waste everyone's time with that again right now.
BertL
Active Member
I believe there is an improvement in 2.12.126 or 2.13.77 - at least with my S90D
Net is something like this in big round numbers:
- From marketing materials, I expect Rated Range on my S90D to be ~257 miles @ 90% Charge, and ~286 at 100% (which includes 16 miles unique to the Range Upgrade Option I purchased)
- At delivery running firmware 6.2, I had 255 rated range miles @ 90% which is the highest I've ever seen, and my first 100% charge was 282 a month later
- In my first 5 months (October-March) my lowest Rated Range has been 249 miles @ 90% multiple times, and 278 miles @ 100% (I've only charged to 100% 6 times, so statistically it does not help with the analysis)
- Since installing firmware 7.1 2.12.126 and 2.13.77, I'm now consistently achieving 251-252 rated range miles @ 90%, and my last 100% charge displayed 280 miles which is better than it has been
.
For those that like detail, my current Temp, Rated Range, & Firmware log: View attachment AEL Rated Range.pdf Take note of data from 2/16/16 onward when the latest firmware levels were installed, and note the lower temps when those charges and my recordings typically take place each day, compared to sometimes even higher temps with lower rated range many times in the weeks before. All my energy-related settings and environment are noted at the bottom of that spreadsheet.
* ...and to avoid comments we've discussed earlier in this thread: I get RR is an estimate and may not correlate to practical range achieved on the road; battery capacity will decline over time; and some members with 85kWH batteries have a lot of good detail showing seasonal temperature variation impacts Rated Range more dramatically than perhaps some of us with 90kWh batteries see in more moderate climates.
Just back a couple hours ago from a few days 600+ mile road trip with my MS and use of different SpCs and another 80A HPWC from the two I have always used for the first 5 months of S90D ownership. I'm presently on firmware 7.1 2.13.77, about 10 days into the last two new code drops, and I really do believe there has been an improvement -- not a resolution -- in the way Rated Range on my specific S90D is presented in either 2.12.126 and/or 2.13.77.2nd day and 2nd 90% charge after the latest firmware update and showing 251 rated miles once again this morning. Have been running 249-250 for the last 2 weeks with several days being warmer (and a couple cooler) than the last two days. Inconclusive still from my perspective, but it is enough to peak my interest. I'd say I'd keep my eye on it, but have already been doing that on a daily basis since 11/2/2015.
Net is something like this in big round numbers:
- From marketing materials, I expect Rated Range on my S90D to be ~257 miles @ 90% Charge, and ~286 at 100% (which includes 16 miles unique to the Range Upgrade Option I purchased)
- At delivery running firmware 6.2, I had 255 rated range miles @ 90% which is the highest I've ever seen, and my first 100% charge was 282 a month later
- In my first 5 months (October-March) my lowest Rated Range has been 249 miles @ 90% multiple times, and 278 miles @ 100% (I've only charged to 100% 6 times, so statistically it does not help with the analysis)
- Since installing firmware 7.1 2.12.126 and 2.13.77, I'm now consistently achieving 251-252 rated range miles @ 90%, and my last 100% charge displayed 280 miles which is better than it has been
.
...so, while I've still lost something from what I expect from Tesla's Marketing materials I based my purchase upon, after running the latest firmware for more than 10 days, I really do believe Tesla has introduced a Rated Range algorithm change that improved and perhaps stablizes what my S90D displays. Hopefully there will be additional future refinement, but I'm pleased with movement in the right direction.* Thank you, Tesla.
For those that like detail, my current Temp, Rated Range, & Firmware log: View attachment AEL Rated Range.pdf Take note of data from 2/16/16 onward when the latest firmware levels were installed, and note the lower temps when those charges and my recordings typically take place each day, compared to sometimes even higher temps with lower rated range many times in the weeks before. All my energy-related settings and environment are noted at the bottom of that spreadsheet.
* ...and to avoid comments we've discussed earlier in this thread: I get RR is an estimate and may not correlate to practical range achieved on the road; battery capacity will decline over time; and some members with 85kWH batteries have a lot of good detail showing seasonal temperature variation impacts Rated Range more dramatically than perhaps some of us with 90kWh batteries see in more moderate climates.
After 3 months, 255 estimated range @ 90% is where it has stopped declining on my S90D -- a 2 mile loss since delivery. Spreadsheet at link.
Tesla Range Tracking - Google Sheets
Tesla Range Tracking - Google Sheets
chriSharek
Member
I just took delivery of my S90D 9 days ago. My 90% charge has been consistently between 265 and 267. I haven't tried 100% yet, but I don't understand why I'd be getting about 10 miles more for the same battery pack. I'm on 2.13.77.
That's VERY good 90% numbers for 3 months. Have you ever done a 100% charge? Your spreadsheet shows "projected" not actual so maybe not.
Are you sure you are exactly on the 90% marker line? The Remote S iOS app lets you get it exactly on.
Last edited:
I just picked up a loaner 90D, and it's showing 267 at 90%. It's a fairly new build with 700 miles on the odo.
My personal car is a 90D, Oct '15 build. Showed 255 at 90% when new, and now it's at 250 at 90%.
Not sure why these newer cars might be showing 267. Newer pack revision?
jeffro01
Active Member
With you on that 100% Jeff.
@marin, @beryl- can you take a picture of your pack sticker and post it for us?
Tesla battery pack information is found on a sticker affixed to the front right side of the battery pack that can be seen when looking under your car from just behind the front right (passenger side) wheel.
It's easier to see if your suspension is in the high position.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
