AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?

[Reciprocity]

You should have done alot more digging than 10 seconds. You would know that eyeq4 which would goes into production 2018 and to be used by any car manufacturer would have to be powerful enough to allow lidar processing just like nvidia drive px2 enables multiple lidar, camera and radar processing.

And that this is completely different from mobileye rem map.

If you searched for more than 10 seconds
You would have found out that Mobileye REM map is created using the front facing camera and eyeQ3 chip that is already in over 20 million cars today.

Enabling Autonomous - Mobileye

41 mins

Please please watch the entire map section and educate yourself.

www.mobileye.com/our-technology/rem/

First, Mobileye doesnt make cars so they really dont have a solution at all, but setting that aside, their solution supports Lidar and Tesla's does not which makes them different. I dont know what part of this you dont get? I lastly, I dont need educated in what Mobileye is doing because it is meaningless to me as I am firmly in the Tesla, AKA Right, camp. I mean this is a Tesla forum, where people discuss Tesla solutions, which are also better then Mobileye's using Mobileye's own hardware. I rest my case. Again. And, hey your moms calling you, why dont you go upstairs and eat the spaghettios she made you.

 

[Bladerskb]

First, Mobileye doesnt make cars so they really dont have a solution at all, but setting that aside, their solution supports Lidar and Tesla's does not which makes them different. I dont know what part of this you dont get? I lastly, I dont need educated in what Mobileye is doing because it is meaningless to me as I am firmly in the Tesla, AKA Right, camp. I mean this is a Tesla forum, where people discuss Tesla solutions, which are also better then Mobileye's using Mobileye's own hardware. I rest my case. Again. And, hey your moms calling you, why dont you go upstairs and eat the spaghettios she made you.

Okay so you were wrong its okay. You dont have to get all personal.

 

[Reciprocity]

Okay so you were wrong its okay. You dont have to get all personal.

The difference is that I was right about something of substance, which I refer you back to the original post. But instead you choose to focus on some meaningless minutia which is pretty much why you are on ignore for most of this forum. Its not personal, its just a fact. When you have 328 posts and more dislikes then posts, then most people dont agree with you. Good day sir, I have to go get into my Model X and have it drive me home.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Okay so you were wrong its okay. You dont have to get all personal.

Lol, weren't you the one specifically trying to bait him into a "gotcha" in the first place? Anyways, let's bring this thread back to the topic of analyzing what the AP2 cameras are doing.

 

[bjornb]

You would have found out that Mobileye REM map is created using the front facing camera and eyeQ3 chip that is already in over 20 million cars today.

How many EyeQ3 cars are in use today for REM map creation? Production cars in customer hands?

Ammon talks about 2 million cars from 2018 here (32 mins):

Tesla have about 50 thousand (?) AP2 cars on the road today which have started collecting data now recently. I assume the AP1 cars will not be able to contribute much because of the split with Mobileye..

 

[Bladerskb]

Lol, weren't you the one specifically trying to bait him into a "gotcha" in the first place? Anyways, let's bring this thread back to the topic of analyzing what the AP2 cameras are doing.

But he was wrong. Point blank. His post made him look clueless. How do you claim to be knowledgeable on something and make blanket statements against the competition but dont even know what the competitor is doing. There is no room for speculation that is not based on facts on this thread.

Plus i wasnt trying to bait him into a gotchua. I was tryong to prove how clueless the post was. The worse thing is someone who doesnt know what hes talking about but think he does and refuses to learn

 

[verygreen]

Well... I see that it is preaty much impossible for me to figure out anything, that you don't now already. All I can do is to wish you good luck in your work, an wait for some awesome results.

I don't really know anything, but the discussions cause me to look deeper and discover things.

@verygreen

Tesla reads this forum. I was once contacted by email too but for other reasons.

Yeah, I know that.

In other news, today in the morning my AP stopped working completely just as I needed to do some tedious driving.
By amazing coincidence, disabling car internet connection led to a working AP again.
I greatly appreciate Tesla using me as a test subject for "on the fly" untested policies that happen to crash in-car services (hopefully that one would be fixed in the next build, right? "Don't trust data from network", right?). I also love how the logs from the events magically disappeared.

So no new snapshots for me for now, I guess ( suspect that's what the policy change was).

 

[Bladerskb]

The difference is that I was right about something of substance, which I refer you back to the original post. But instead you choose to focus on some meaningless minutia which is pretty much why you are on ignore for most of this forum. Its not personal, its just a fact. When you have 328 posts and more dislikes then posts, then most people dont agree with you. Good day sir, I have to go get into my Model X and have it drive me home.

"they are creating hi-def maps but not in the way they have been shown in all the tech demos from companies like Mobileye and nVidia. They augment the GPS location by using landmarks"

Nope, wrong.

 

[dpskipper]

I don't really know anything, but the discussions cause me to look deeper and discover things.


Yeah, I know that.

In other news, today in the morning my AP stopped working completely just as I needed to do some tedious driving.
By amazing coincidence, disabling car internet connection led to a working AP again.
I greatly appreciate Tesla using me as a test subject for "on the fly" untested policies that happen to crash in-car services (hopefully that one would be fixed in the next build, right? "Don't trust data from network", right?). I also love how the logs from the events magically disappeared.

So no new snapshots for me for now, I guess ( suspect that's what the policy change was).

I'm assuming that tesla owns the software thats inside the car, however do they have the right to intrude in your car and mess with your investigations. Its most disappointing tesla is continuing this dodgy practise with hindering anyone who is curious about THEIR OWN car....

 

[verygreen]

I'm assuming that tesla owns the software thats inside the car, however do they have the right to intrude in your car and mess with your investigations. Its most disappointing tesla is continuing this dodgy practise with hindering anyone who is curious about THEIR OWN car....

They certainly act like they do, even though they don't own a bunch of it and in fact we can argue have no right to some of it altogether.

Another interesting observation:
It appears that the ape board is on and blasting at full speed analyzing the environment while the car is charging. This greatly increases chances of snapshots while at home in the garage, but also if you charge at a lower capable charger - it eats a bigger percentage of it all reducing already low mph. I did not measure it yet but there must be a way to measure this extra draw. The whole thing seems to be quite pointless either way.
Plugged in = eap off makes a lot more sense (not that you cannot drive while plugged in, right?)

 

[Reciprocity]

"they are creating hi-def maps but not in the way they have been shown in all the tech demos from companies like Mobileye and nVidia. They augment the GPS location by using landmarks"

Nope, wrong.

You disagreeing with people does not make your right. Again, instead of focusing on one thing you disagree with and complaining about how right you are, why not try refute the other 30 points on very detailed post? Maybe because you can't. All you really do is run your mouth and pay videos of mobileye and Audi while cleaning they are both better then Tesla on a Tesla forum. Go back to Audi forum or did they kick you out?

 

[bjornb]

It appears that the ape board is on and blasting at full speed analyzing the environment while the car is charging. This greatly increases chances of snapshots while at home in the garage, but also if you charge at a lower capable charger - it eats a bigger percentage of it all reducing already low mph. I did not measure it yet but there must be a way to measure this extra draw. The whole thing seems to be quite pointless either way.
Plugged in = eap off makes a lot more sense (not that you cannot drive while plugged in, right?)

So it does not switch to any other tasks while parked, processing something else?

BTW TeslaFi logs consumption using the REST API, also calculates charges effeciency and parking loss, I assume the HW2 board is part of that.. - Example:

 

[lunitiks]

Statement from an Nvidia forum moderator:

DrivePX2 typical power consumption is 80W

 

[bjornb]

Something related to gps, because gps service on cid also wants access there.

Do we now anything more about the GPS? What about the IMU?
From the AP2 transcript:

There are also minor things like the GPS is more accurate & provides more frequent updates and the other some minor sensor improvements on the IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit) and few other areas.

 

[lunitiks]

Do we now anything more about the GPS?

@verygreen can u access Dev Mode on the MCU? There should be a submenu with info on GPS. Old screenshot:

UBlox

• lunitiks
• May 7, 2017

 

[arwooldridge]

OT, Anyone know what Ublox device they are using? Some eg M8T are raw data enabled. So they could in principle do RTK (cm) accurate GPS by streaming down virtual reference base station data over WAN. They could even in future use their supercharger network as base stations to generate the virtual reference station data. Its most certainly only a single frequency receiver, so not the best for fast aquisition from satelite blind spots ( tunnels, bridges etc.) Cheaper dual frequency GPS receivers are coming but not quite yet. Another downside would be loss of base station data in poor WAN areas.

 

[verygreen]

@lunitiks Re the board, I just heard from a reliable source that on the AP board there are two nvidia chips. "one big, one small", the big one is on a daughterboard similar to cid, small one is on the main board.
Pictures do exist, but my source cannot release them.

 

[croman]

"Tesla is heavily relying on GPS and to make it useful, they are creating hi-def maps but not in the way they have been shown in all the tech demos from companies like Mobileye and nVidia. They augment the GPS location by using landmarks"



Tesla doesnt have any kind of self driving in production or in customers hands. The only people who will have a self driving (l3) car in customers hands anytime soon is audi in october and nissan (l3) in 2018.

Tesla has a l2 system in production and in customers.

Really nothing in production? That's hypocrisy. You attack others for speculation but that's all you do other than shill for mobileye.

 

[bjornb]

@lunitiks Re the board, I just heard from a reliable source that on the AP board there are two nvidia chips. "one big, one small", the big one is on a daughterboard similar to cid, small one is on the main board.
Pictures do exist, but my source cannot release them.

So are we talking about one Tegra and one discrete Pascal GPU then?

Anything more about this 'lb' device?

 

[Saghost]

Tesla doesnt have any kind of self driving in production or in customers hands. The only people who will have a self driving (l3) car in customers hands anytime soon is audi in october and nissan (l3) in 2018.

Tesla has a l2 system in production and in customers.

Tesla has a system of hardware and sensors that they are convinced is adequate for Level 5 in production and in customer's hands - and has for more than six months.

They're also the only player in the game with a history of significant capability improvements to the fleet to firmware upgrades. eAP may be Level 2 now, but that's subject to change at any time.

Unless Tesla is badly confused about the potential of the system, what makes you think they won't have a level 3 capability in restricted environments like Audi is promising by the time the Audi and Nissan cars with that are actually released?

That would then roll out to all cars built since last October if they have the eAP and FSDC options...