AP2 / 8.1 Test Drive Perspective from AP1 Owner

[chillaban]

Thank you for the very informative, unbiased post. I concur with your comments. In its current iteration, AP2 is "better than nothing" but still basically just a gimmick. Not even close to what I test drove (and rightfully expected would be delivered) with an AP1 car. Let's hope they keep improving rapidly.

Yeah, I genuinely hope that this review will be a useless relic in a few weeks

I mean, it's been a mixed bag of emotions to be perfectly honest doing my AP1 70D -> AP2 100D trade-in. I mean the difference between AP1 and AP2 was night and day. I drove nearly the same route in same traffic conditions when I dropped off my car to pick up the loaner, and the reverse trip this morning. But at the same time, the last few months with AP1 have bothered me. The system is great but it's totally plateaued. I've watched all you AP2 folks get update after update, watching changes in the system unfold before your eyes.

I want to invest in some aftermarket equipment on my car but in all reality I could not see myself keeping my AP1 car for several more years. I expect for a good part of this year I'll be bummed and missing AP1, but in the long haul I do expect to look back and reminisce about this while actually experiencing L3-L4 autonomy with my new Tesla

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

That kind of review is when someone is most definitely not wrong on the internet, and they do such a good job explaining something that you can sleep peacefully knowing that the internet is in good hands.

 

[oktane]

Agreed, it restores my faith in humanity to see fair, balanced, and real reporting!

 

[croman]

Just to add to that: my "old" Tesla is a Refresh model. I agree that it has a better camera, but the AP2-era camera is even better. I can read out license plates of the 3 cars immediately behind me at red lights, which I could not do before. It makes it a lot more pleasing to use as a rear view mirror replacement.

AP2 BUC is also heated, so its not affected by snow or ice. Rain evaporates though leaving more water marks but the image quality is only affected slightly.

 

[Mobster]

Add my thanks to the op for the great information. I had to laugh a little at one line that is so on target and so blunt:

• "With AP2, the car goes maybe 15 seconds between attempting to kill me."

I appreciate so much the work that is being done to continuously improve the Enhanced Autosteer by Tesla. I have had so many very fast sports cars over so many years (old man) and of course my P100D stands out as the most loved....and the most demanding culturally for me to accept changes...be patient....and then be appreciative of incremental improvements . I traded in a Model S 85 2013 model for my new one. It is.....I believe a different way of life! I have a car that at times tries to kill me. I love it....as long as it does not succeed and eventually with more downloads becomes less inclined to attempt to kill! At first I was amused at some of the cool upgrades such as "summon". But then I found it to be such a help. I have a bad left leg and when the car is in the garage next to my wife's car I have to open my door only a bit and it was painful to get in and out. Now......the summon command opens the garage door pulls my car out automatically closes the garage door and I can open the car door wide to painlessly swing my leg in. So anyway...sometimes features that I think I will never use become very useful. Thanks to Tesla....thanks to the op for so much information and thanks to others who added information (I did not know the new hi def rear camera was heated).

 

[rlawson4]

I completely concur with this review. I used AP1 for more than a year and agree that AP2 is making up ground pretty fast. One thing I also noted was when a car merges in from the left or the right AP2 does not react as well as AP1, especially in slow stop and go traffic. I think the progress they have made is pretty impressive.

 

[Snowstorm]

I am driving an AP1 loaner because my new AP2 model s is in he shop after 3 days due to a cracker a pillar (long and developing story, see mode s ordering sub forum)

I can say that before driving the AP1, I though AP2 8.1 was pretty darn good on the highway. I didn't dare using it on surface street after seeing the crazy random lines. I would now say that AP1 is solid, and AP2 is usable on highways, but not as good.

I had he chance to drive both on the same route to work and here is what I found.
Stop and go - both are good
Straight - both are good
Curves on highway - AP1 is better, AP2 reacts later and is jerky, but usually still keeps you in lane
Forks - AP1 will tend to follow car in front. AP2 behaves less predictably.

The road and car display is significantly better on AP1. With more cars and lanes drawn and sometimes correct ID of trucks. In general, I would want more info on what the car is doing during AP, help inspire confidence and detect potential issues. So, bring on those AR outline boxes please (just allow us to turn them off too)

Another thing I notice is that AP1 touch screen dims propertly and shifts from day to night just right. Where they AP2 screen does appears to dim and shifts to night mode way too late. Making me manually adjust the brightness on the way home. This doesn't get much attention but really impacts the user experience.

 

[Axael]

Thanks for this thread, it actually answers a lot of questions I had about AP2 and the way it works.

I was particularly confused about the fact that it doesn't display any vehicles in the adjacent lanes, though the Model S I tried before buying mine did (it was an AP1 car).

 

[AndrewTX]

Thank you for the very informative, unbiased post. I concur with your comments. In its current iteration, AP2 is "better than nothing" but still basically just a gimmick. Not even close to what I test drove (and rightfully expected would be delivered) with an AP1 car. Let's hope they keep improving rapidly.

I just used AP2 for about 200 miles on a round trip between Houston and Dallas and found that it performed quite well on both the open road and in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic(on a freeway). If that's simply a gimmick then sign me up for more of them.
If Tesla's next update improves the surface-road EAP to faster than 35mph(50mph would be great) and handles intersections reliably then I'll be very happy with the overall AP2 system.

 

[oktane]

Everyone's tolerance level is different. For me it is better than pre 8.1 but still too jerky around curves. It's hard to describe but it moves in an angular fashion where instead of a smooth curve it's driving a hexagon. Sometimes it gets outside of the lane or wanders dangerously close to other cars.

It's fun to try out for a few minutes at a time, but more work than just letting my mind go blank and having my internal autopilot drive me there.

For me, autopilot = gimmick unless I can trust it enough to not keep my hands on or near the wheel. Currently the Tesla is not even at L2 autonomy. I'll be happy if we reach L3.

 

[Alan Sherman]

My feeling is that if AP 1 or 2 does not drive at least as well as I do, it is really just a gimmick at this point. And I can say without reservation that my 75D AP2 car does not. It wanders in the lane more than I do when I am steering, and is more abrupt in acceleration and deceleration. When I pass a large tractor trailer truck on the left, and he wanders too close to the left line, the Tesla should steer away from it, It doesn't...it stays right in the center of the lane. That is scary. All in all, my anxiety level is much higher when I use AP2 than when I drive under my own control. I'm afraid to use it when passengers are in the car. I still turn it on when I am alone in the car, just to learn more about it, but at this point, I'd call it a work in progress, a beta.

 

[oktane]

More proof that at this point, AP2 has turned out to be a scam. Although some may disagree, the majority of us did not pay for a "beta".

Sorry to have to say it, I had much higher hopes for Tesla and Elon Musk. I bought the car because I thought he was a genius and above this sort of shenanigans of screwing supporters. I actually even bought his biography (but admittedly only made it 1/4 of the way through).

I hope they get this fixed as soon as possible. Although it is too little too late, a nice gesture would be refunding our stolen money.

 

[Electroman]

A nice gesture would be you stop hyperventilating the same rant over and over again and stop exaggerating.

 

[oktane]

I guarantee you I will stop as soon as the autopilot works as advertised!

 

[bob_p]

It's taking Tesla longer than they expected to replicate the software Mobileye was providing with the AP1 sensors.

Tesla thought they could achieve AP1 parity in a few months, and obviously it's taking longer than they expected - which isn't unusual for software projects, especially those on aggressive schedules. Tesla has pretty consistently tried to push the envelope on their software - and have been late in delivering major releases, so it's not completely surprising to see the promised AP2 functionality running late.

Customers who purchased EAP when Tesla was promising to deliver the functionality by December are understandably disappointed. And, if someone really feels strongly about it, they should contact Tesla and ask for a refund for EAP.

Though that is probably a very short-sighted action. I'm pretty confident Tesla has better sensors in AP2 than AP1 - and that they'll eventually get the software working at AP1 levels - and then surpass that to fulfill the AP2 goals. And while I wish we could have AP2 working now (we don't even have automatic windshield wipers!), we're looking at this for the long haul, and can wait a while longer before AP2 is more than just a cool demo - and something that is capable enough to work safely.

 

[Snowstorm]

I had my AP2 model S for 3 days until it had to go back to them, and the AP1 loaner is mich more solid in terms of AP. I wish Tesla would put both AP1 and AP2 in their car at the same time. Given how much more expensive AP2 option was compared to AP1, you would think they could have done that. This way, we can use working AP1 until AP2 actually works well and no one will be upset even if it takes a year, especially if they spend a bit of effort to activate some minor feature using the new cameras like better blind spot detection instead of only scrambling to reach parity that is yet to be achieved.

This isn't just about he cost of the option, as some people may not have purchased a Tesla at that time at all if there was no AP. I wonder if AP1 parallel retro fit is possible, after all, the wiring and sensors are all there.

 

[Gibson]

I guarantee you I will stop as soon as the autopilot works as advertised!

Respectfully, in your eyes, that time will never come. And that is because one's review of AP2 will always be opinion and not fact. And quite frankly, your opinion is so clouded by your hatred/distrust of Tesla, that you will always find (more) flaws with the system. It will never be good enough, period. As you likely recall, a couple of months ago I asked why you still own a car that causes this much aggravation and heartache. Unfortunately, months later, I still have to ask the same question.

Personally, my experience with AP2 is quite similar to the OP's. I would give TACC and AP2 (highway use only) very high marks, just as the OP did. ( "TACC: 95% parity; Highway Autosteer: 90% parity, even glimmers of superiority in certain situations") I find the system to be far better than a "sham or gimmick". I do not think that I was "ripped off" nor do I feel I am owed my money back. I ordered my car in October with AP1 and picked up the car on January 26th with AP2. I don't feel that I was a victim of the old "bait and switch". In fact, quite the opposite. If they delivered a car to me with "old tech", I would have been upset. I understand that others feel differently. While I don't agree with them, that is their opinion. I don't imagine that I would ever be able to convince them otherwise, nor will I try.

I have confidence in TACC and AP2. It is not flawless, but that is why I remain vigilant. When the system is even better in a few months, guess what? I will remain vigilant at that time as well. I usually activate AP2 as soon as I have merged onto the highway and it typically stays active my entire drive. Does it accelerate as fast as I might? No. Does it take turns exactly as I would? No. Does it change lanes exactly as I would? No. Does it brake at the exact moment that I would? No. Does it brake at the same rate that I would brake? No. Will it ever? No. It is not designed to drive exactly as I would and it never will. If that is what people expect, they are in for a very big disappointment. I would love to think that Elon Musk and his computer programmers designed my car for me and AP2 to mimic my exact driving. But they didn't. And I don't fault them for that. I suspect that they are designing the program to simulate "safe driving".

Now, AP2 on local roads? It needs a lot of work. It is nowhere near parity with AP1 and I unfortunately do not expect it to be at any point in the next several weeks and possibly not even in the next couple of months. Personally, I am okay with that. On local roads, I prefer to be "in charge" anyway. On local roads, I have the privilege of operating, in my opinion, the greatest car I have ever driven.

I am well aware that others may disagree. That is their right.

Even when AP2 is as good as it is going to get, it won't be perfect. It wont drive exactly like "you" would. Expecting that is setting yourself up for disappointment. At least in my opinion.

Be safe. Sorry for the rant.

 

[Electroman]

People who are very critical now and cannot see and acknowledge the steady improvements Tesla has made in AP2, will continue to spout the same criticism, 'cheated, scam, killing machine, ...' even after AP2 reaches 100% parity and beyond.

 

[OBX John]

People who are very critical now and cannot see and acknowledge the steady improvements Tesla has made in AP2, will continue to spout the same criticism, 'cheated, scam, killing machine, ...' even after AP2 reaches 100% parity and beyond.

Funny thing is, it's not even the criticism that is so bothersome. Feedback for Tesla is healthy. It's the TONE - this site should be a fun and enjoyable place where people can enjoy talking about our favorite subject, not a whinefest.

 

[oktane]

@Gibson - Good post, and obviously you are entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree with your assessment and assumptions. You sure have a lot of "no's" in your second paragraph about functionality for someone happy with the performance.

I'm sure Tesla wishes all purchasers were as patient and forgiving as you, but clearly that's not the case. Welcome to the real world Tesla, where not everyone sees things through rose colored lenses.

Will your opinion change if AP2 never reaches parity?