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Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

iadbound

Member
Apr 24, 2014
648
16
No. VA
After reading through the thread, I come away with a number of thoughts on this issue:

1. Tesla has great ideas and a wonderful car where it can deliver those ideas.

2. Tesla's vision far exceeds its capabilities to deliver in a timely manner.

3. Tesla's advertising coupled with its promises of future enhancements has created a somewhat false impression of the Model S that is frustrating even the the very knowledgable owners and would-be buyers on this forum -- I can only imagine how less inquisitive owners or buyers manage along in this process.

4. Tesla's advertising sometimes borders on deceptive. Every car maker takes the best looking photos it can, hypes sometimes meaningless features, or overstates the car's capabilities except in very controlled environments (i.e., 0-60 times), but Tesla has often been plain old wrong about certain things (next gen seating availability, automatic charger door closing in Europe, etc.). Heck if I were a new buyer I might think, based on the current pictures on the website, that I would be getting Alcantara inserts on the seats. Tesla needs to fix these inconsistencies.

5. Tesla is a very new car company, but it is starting to be an old-timer as a technology company. It must mature and find a way to better communicate and deliver on its promises. I've pointed out, many times here, that the days of getting a pass on delays, or poor workmanship, or the inclusion of necessary features, simply because the car is very innovative will soon be over. The trade press and buyers alike won't stand for it when the Model X and especially the Model ≡ arrive.
 

donv

Member
Jul 15, 2013
599
47
Lake Jeanclia, OR
That would be more true if we weren't talking about a feature most other luxury car makers have had for a while.

In the new Ashlee Vance biography of Elon, Elon says something along the lines of "I've always delivered what I've promised, but rarely when I've promised it." This is just more of the same.

Tesla have shown a pretty dreadful record of shipping software in a timely manner. In the area of "research" where you're creating something that has never existed before, it's incredibly difficult to predict when a project will be finished. Tesla simply appears to be a typical victim of this problem. One of the ways to solve it is to never pre-announce your products until they're ready to ship! Obviously Elon doesn't want to do it that way.
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,642
8,470
Austin, TX
That would be more true if we weren't talking about a feature most other luxury car makers have had for a while.
And Tesla has features most other luxury car makers don't have, and won't have for a while. No ICE, for one. Not every car manufacturer can implement every new feature at the same time.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,351
3,344
Phoenix, AZ
I think you fail to realize what I meant by arbitrary deadline. This is the time frame I set for myself for how long I'd be willing to put up with Tesla not delivering on their promises.

Therein lies the crux of your problem. Tesla never promised a specific date of delivery for this feature, other than vague statements such as "in a few months", "soon", or "in future software updates". Where, in any of Tesla's verbiage or in any of Elon's statements (that were not prefaced with a disclaimer about forward looking statements), do you find an actual promise of when, specifically, this feature will be delivered?

This is not the time frame they would legally have to do so, which they tied themselves to less.

Can you please point to where Tesla tied themselves to a specific date?

My arbitrary deadline was about a 1/4rd of the way through my summer trips and is a courtesy on my part.

Courtesy for what, exactly, when Tesla never promised a specific delivery date for this feature? Your "arbitrary" deadline means nothing in this context other than an attempt to control an uncontrollable situation.

Also, this is not the only thing that would factor into such a lawsuit. Initial claims of higher range and higher horsepower and then failing to deliver and changing specs after ordering would certainly factor into a larger legal case.

Seems like you have a few bees under your bonnet, apparently it's not just about the Autopilot feature after all. If the car is really such a disappointment, as you indicate, then you should sell it and buy something that you are happier with. I'm sorry Tesla has disappointed you to the point of needing to threaten a lawsuit against them. I do hope that you find a way to resolve your angst.
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,393
Ithaca, NY
I've just read through this entire thread. Rather than try to quote from and respond to individual comments, I'll just make some of my own. I know I'll be attacked for some of them, particularly the first one.

I ordered my P85D, without ever having seen a Model S in person, thinking it was coming with the lane-keeping feature we're talking about here. You can all beat me up for not doing enough research, for missing the disclaimers, etc., etc., tell me it's my own fault, and that's fine. I was brand new to Tesla when I heard about the D announcement and watched the video of it. There was a lot of new information coming at me fast. I tried to take it all in. If a picture is worth a thousand words, what's a video worth? I watched several different videos of the test rides given at the launch event between the time I first became interested in the P85D and the time I ordered one a couple of weeks later. In those videos, the car was lane-keeping. If anyone in any of those videos said the car wouldn't be doing that at delivery, I missed it. (I'm pretty sure no one did.) I'm not suggesting that it is Tesla's fault I thought my P85D was coming with lane-keeping at the time I ordered it, and only discovered it wasn't as I read TMC and became more knowledgeable. What I am suggesting, though, is that I expect that there were a lot of other customers just like me. Tesla demo'd something that they apparently were not all that close to releasing. Disclaimers aside, and intentional or not, that was misleading.

Do I want Tesla to release lane-keeping before it's ready? Of course not. I don't think any reasonable person does. But I do want Tesla to do right by its customers when it lets them down. Disappointing us will sometimes be unavoidable. But Tesla has the means to ease that disappointment, and thus far I have seen none of that, in spite of being disappointed over and over and over again.

As an early adopter of the P85D, taking delivery in late December, I received a car that didn't get the advertised efficiency, with no explanation at the time. A few months later an update was released that gets the car close, but not to what was advertised. I apparently don't have the 691 horsepower I thought I would have. I didn't get either my front or rear Next Generation seats until five months after I paid for them. I was not given any choice in this matter, and was offered nothing in the way of compensation. To top it all off, the center console I thought I was purchasing along with my car Tesla decided not to make, after providing continuous updates about when it would be available. They then lied, saying they wouldn't be selling any in the finish I wanted (obeche matte) and went on to sell some, in limited supply, to people who had happened to sign up on a waiting list for them before I did. Why not, at the point they knew they did not have enough consoles to satisfy everyone who wanted one, opt to sell them to customers that they had disappointed in some way--say by having made them wait five months for seats they had paid for? If you're going to sell a console to everyone who wants one, then sure, sell them in the order people signed up on a list. But if only a limited number of people are going to get the consoles, in my opinion they shouldn't have gone to people who bought their cars before the console was even announced instead of to people who thought they were buying their car with the console. If you are going to disappoint people anyway, why not disappoint new people, and choose to use the receipt of a console as a means to relieve the disappointment over another matter with different customers? (Can you tell I'm still incredibly bitter about my piano black console, and the Frankenstein interior it created?)

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flak for the above, but the console situation, coupled with the other disappointments, really changed the way I feel about Tesla and my Model S. You could say the console situation was the straw that broke this camel's back.

Mistakes will happen. Delays are unavoidable. But small concessions can be made to ease the pain when these things happen. I have yet to see Tesla care enough about its customers to make any such concession.

I was one of the people who, along with wk057, have my name on that banner that hangs at Tesla headquarters thanking the Tesla employees, which was presented to them on the pizza party day. I sent a hand-written card that I understand Bonnie read. I meant the nice things I wrote on that card, and I really felt the sentiments that I expressed. I'd like to feel that way about Tesla and my Model S again, but I'm not sure I ever will.

Let's say thanks: Pizza for the factory employees - Page 28

Banner.jpg
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,351
3,344
Phoenix, AZ
As an early adopter of the P85D, taking delivery in late December, I received a car that didn't get the advertised efficiency, with no explanation at the time. A few months later an update was released that gets the car close, but not to what was advertised. I apparently don't have the 691 horsepower I thought I would have. I didn't get either my front or rear Next Generation seats until five months after I paid for them. I was not given any choice in this matter, and was offered nothing in the way of compensation.

Not to be too "on the nose", but there is a simple solution when you don't get the seats that you ordered - you decline delivery of the vehicle. However, Tesla told you they are coming and will be retrofitted in the future, and your acceptance of delivery constituted an acceptance of the car in its condition at the time and acceptance of Tesla's due-bill for your seats. It seems a little strange to complain about a situation that you accepted. I'm just pointing out the obvious.
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
198
This is certainly a heated topic, and the OP is entitled to his opinion/feelings. We just ask that members avoid personal attacks. Thank ya.
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,393
Ithaca, NY
Not to be too "on the nose", but there is a simple solution when you don't get the seats that you ordered - you decline delivery of the vehicle. However, Tesla told you they are coming and will be retrofitted in the future, and your acceptance of delivery constituted an acceptance of the car in its condition at the time and acceptance of Tesla's due-bill for your seats. It seems a little strange to complain about a situation that you accepted. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

That particular situation, in and of itself, did not bother me all that much, though at the time I think all of us affected expected the delay to be much shorter than it turned out to be for most of us.

My point was that the disappointments are cumulative. What bothers one person a lot may not bother another very much. But in all these situations, some small token on Tesla's part would go a long way towards keeping customers happy. It took a lot for me to reach the point I'm at now. I only got here after seeing no light at the end of the tunnel with respect to my interior. I currently have no hope of ever seeing an interior that matches. That is extremely disheartening. The seats I knew I would eventually get. The lane-keeping I expect I will eventually get. The 691 HP I may never get, and while it is somewhat annoying, I'm not sure how much I'll really miss it. The mismatched interior I notice every time I get in the car.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,351
3,344
Phoenix, AZ
That particular situation, in and of itself, did not bother me all that much, though at the time I think all of us affected expected the delay to be much shorter than it turned out to be for most of us.

My point was that the disappointments are cumulative. What bothers one person a lot may not bother another very much. But in all these situations, some small token on Tesla's part would go a long way towards keeping customers happy. It took a lot for me to reach the point I'm at now. I only got here after seeing no light at the end of the tunnel with respect to my interior. I currently have no hope of ever seeing an interior that matches. That is extremely disheartening. The seats I knew I would eventually get. The lane-keeping I expect I will eventually get. The 691 HP I may never get, and while it is somewhat annoying, I'm not sure how much I'll really miss it. The mismatched interior I notice every time I get in the car.

I totally understand your disappointment. Don't get me wrong. My responses have largely been colored by talk of lawsuits, which I generally find distasteful. At some point you encountered the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. I get that. I also agree with your outrage over the center console and having one that doesn't match your interior trim. I got lucky with my console, as I received a carbon fiber including special side panels to match the stitching of my interior. Tesla goes above and beyond for some, but not so much for others. It's inconsistent.

I do hope that you receive the satisfaction that you seek. I'm sure Tesla is aware of the expectations that it created with Autopilot, and can only hope that they are in overdrive trying to get the software out of testing and into everyone's cars. I have noticed a shift in Tesla's communications in the last couple of months. Things seem quieter over there. I would much prefer that Tesla not reveal new models or functionality until the cars and/or software are ready to ship on the day of the announcement. Sometimes I think Tesla, or Musk specifically, gets trapped into thinking that they need to be constantly announcing things. Case in point: Roadster update. Where is that?
 

RMG007

Member
Mar 8, 2015
116
35
San Diego
Some interesting, thought provoking comments in this thread. I too see both sides, but also don't believe Tesla has failed on this issue.

Here are my predictions:

1. When the lane keeping software is released, people will become upset because they've read in this forum about all the people that have received the update already, but they have not, and Tesla isn't providing a time-frame when they will receive it.

2. When new hardware is released, people that just missed out will be super upset, but there will be issues with the first generation of new hardware and some that feel they would rather wait until the second version. However, the second version people will now be upset because new hardware is now being released again.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,565
21,936
Texas
and Tesla's reaction to reading this thread will be ...
To ignore it for the most part. This is a no-win situation. Regardless of what they do there will always be those who feel slighted or taken advantage of:

- If they stop announcing things, people will complain they have stopped doing any R&D and the shorts will have a field day saying Tesla is running out of cash, etc.

- If they switch to model years, they won't sell any cars after July--except at a deep discount--because people will wait for the next year's model. Shorts will also have a field day with this one because for six months of the year they will point to low sales. Note that this method works with the dealer model because the dealer places orders in advance--and can't cancel without taking a big price hit--and the dealers have to deal with any deep discounts (for the most part--there have been exceptions).

- If they continue as they are there will be the kind of complaint that started this thread. I don't doubt that in five years Tesla will be a bit better at this kind of thing, but it will be so gradual that few will notice.

So the questions are:

- Which model does the least amount of harm to Tesla as a company? (assumes no model is without some harm)

- Which model will excite the most customers and get them to purchase? (assumes car purchasing is as much emotional as it is rational)
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
7,850
28,923
Smithfield, VA
I wouldn't say Tesla has no options. I think Tesla could satisfy most people here by:

1. Being more careful in the future regarding timelines and what they say/promise.

2. Updating customers on when they expect the auto-steering to be released.

3. Offering the warranty for the auto-steering-related hardware starting on release vs. when the car was purchased.

Doing these three things really wouldn't cost them much, but I suspect would go a long way toward goodwill for those folks here who are upset.
 

Footbag

Member
Jun 29, 2013
527
152
Edmonton, Canada
Not to be too "on the nose", but there is a simple solution when you don't get the seats that you ordered - you decline delivery of the vehicle. However, Tesla told you they are coming and will be retrofitted in the future, and your acceptance of delivery constituted an acceptance of the car in its condition at the time and acceptance of Tesla's due-bill for your seats. It seems a little strange to complain about a situation that you accepted. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

In my circumstance at least, Tesla never notified me that the seats were not the seats I ordered. By following TMC, I knew this to be the case (and wasn't overly concerned), but had I not been on TMC, I would have accepted the car, with no due bill from Tesla mentioning the seats. Further, since the whole car was ordered sight unseen (for some of us), it is conceivable that people may not have even noticed the seats were not the ones they were expecting.
 

whamma

Member
Mar 8, 2015
12
14
Chicago, IL
I've been kinda disappointed about this, too. I went shopping in February, and told the sales guy I was going to wait to order until autopilot was available because that's really why I wanted the car.

In fairness, he said "no promises, but..." that it was likely if I ordered immediately, by the time my car was delivered autopilot would be available. He brought up Elon's "few months" comment as proof that we were coming to the end of that. I'm not unhappy with the car, but cars only have lifespans of so many years and it feels like a major feature is not available for what's becoming a significant percentage of those years for a lot of owners.

And for me, it's not so much that it's late, but a lack of communication about why it's late and what to expect. All of us have effectively loaned tesla money for a feature we don't have yet, so I don't think it's too unreasonable for "creditors" to be kept in the loop in some way.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,677
5,693
Merced, CA
I agree with you on this one wk057. Elon's overpromising and underdelivering is getting very old, and I suspect it will eventually lead to legal troubles. There are many people out there that have very deep pockets, and since Tesla's legal team is a joke, they will become an easy target.

Having said that, you probably shouldn't have mentioned legal recourse, because now since that's out there, Tesla is going to be on the defensive.

They monitor this forum very carefully. I mentioned in another thread that I too was now having the wind noise issue at the triangle window. I got an email from a customer service person saying they saw my post and were adding it to the issues I already had an appointment for on the 8th. Awesome customer service btw :)
 

JohnSnowNW

Active Member
Feb 13, 2015
2,626
2,748
Minnesota
I've been kinda disappointed about this, too. I went shopping in February, and told the sales guy I was going to wait to order until autopilot was available because that's really why I wanted the car.

In fairness, he said "no promises, but..." that it was likely if I ordered immediately, by the time my car was delivered autopilot would be available. He brought up Elon's "few months" comment as proof that we were coming to the end of that. I'm not unhappy with the car, but cars only have lifespans of so many years and it feels like a major feature is not available for what's becoming a significant percentage of those years for a lot of owners.

And for me, it's not so much that it's late, but a lack of communication about why it's late and what to expect. All of us have effectively loaned tesla money for a feature we don't have yet, so I don't think it's too unreasonable for "creditors" to be kept in the loop in some way.

I think this has been stated, but your specific reason for ordering the vehicle does not have monetary value. You haven't "loaned" anything.

It is unfortunate that the ambiguous timeline for the roll out of auto-pilot has caused you disappointment...but all Tesla did was to sell you a vehicle with ability to use auto-pilot. They didn't sell you a vehicle that would have auto-pilot enabled in a specific time-frame.

This is not to say I don't understand the frustration, but lets be realistic here...you have what you paid for...Tesla just hasn't opened the full potential of the hardware.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,677
5,693
Merced, CA
Not to be too "on the nose", but there is a simple solution when you don't get the seats that you ordered - you decline delivery of the vehicle. However, Tesla told you they are coming and will be retrofitted in the future, and your acceptance of delivery constituted an acceptance of the car in its condition at the time and acceptance of Tesla's due-bill for your seats. It seems a little strange to complain about a situation that you accepted. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

...except that many were told they'd get them within a few weeks when they signed that due bill yet months later nothing.
 

whamma

Member
Mar 8, 2015
12
14
Chicago, IL
I think this has been stated, but your specific reason for ordering the vehicle does not have monetary value. You haven't "loaned" anything.

It is unfortunate that the ambiguous timeline for the roll out of auto-pilot has caused you disappointment...but all Tesla did was to sell you a vehicle with ability to use auto-pilot. They didn't sell you a vehicle that would have auto-pilot enabled in a specific time-frame.

This is not to say I don't understand the frustration, but lets be realistic here...you have what you paid for...Tesla just hasn't opened the full potential of the hardware.

Just to be clear. I'm referring specifically to paying extra for the auto pilot feature, not the car itself. Yes, I have the hardware, but it's useless without the software that still hasn't shipped yet. We paid $2,500 extra to get features that they advertised auto-pilot as having: lane keeping, automatic steering, self-parking, etc. We paid up front for that, and still haven't received it. That's why, to me, it feels like a loan that didn't get paid back as early as we were told.
 

wk057

Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,654
11,360
Hickory, NC, USA
I find it interesting that the order page text with regard to autopilot now is even more ambiguous.

Autopilot combines onboard sensors with real time traffic updates to automatically drive Model S on the open road and in rush hour traffic. Lane keeping and self-parking will be enabled with over the air software updates.
  • Traffic-aware cruise control
  • Lane keeping with automatic steering
  • Self-parking
  • Automatic high/low beam headlights

And that is literally all that is on the order page now on the subject. It doesn't even say that not all of the features are currently available and makes it sound like every bullet point is available and the two in the description just need to be enabled OTA. If I were buying the car right now I would easily interpret that to mean they just have to enable it when I get my car.

I seriously wonder how many complaints they've gotten about this from their misleading advertising...
 

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