BUY FSD TODAY!

[JeffK]

It would take longer for a vehicle to "give up" than for a handoff to occur.

In Level 3, a human driver is expected to respond but the vehicle can always give up if the human driver does not respond.

Now you're talking even more time to both wait for the human driver and give up. You might only have fractions of a second.

Think of it this way... Google gave up on trying lvl 3.

 

[outie]

Adding this option today means you will be one of the first to experience full self-driving when it becomes available in the future.

This is probably the statement they have issue with. Adding this option today means you will be one of the last to experience FSD simply because you need to wait [long, very long line] to get your car retrofitted with AP3 hardware. Those new cars with built in AP3 will experience it first.

 

[Az_Rael]

it already does that. if you're in stop and go, EAP works just fine without needing to handle any merges.

No, it doesn’t handle people cutting you off well at all. Which happens all the time in SoCal traffic as you probably know. It also can’t handle a zipper merge where two freeways are coming together and lanes are lost. My experience is I still have to take over fairly frequently even in stop and go to deal with what other drivers are doing that AP can’t handle.

 

[xav-]

My opinion:

Buy FSD TODAY!!!

IMO, Tesla removed the option to get your $3k now, because they are VERY close to getting it out, as the new chip and other news incl. the drive by nav that almost ready, suggest!

Very likely that you Will want it sometime next year, and the price incl. upgrading the chip, will be very likely much more than $5k.

This is good stuff. I almost fell for it.

 

[xav-]

This is probably the statement they have issue with. Adding this option today means you will be one of the last to experience FSD simply because you need to wait [long, very long line] to get your car retrofitted with AP3 hardware. Those new cars with built in AP3 will experience it first.

The idea that there is some magical CPU that is going to solve FSD is non sense.. I guess the only people who can be entertained by this idea are non programmers.

 

[xav-]

That's level 3 self driving. Audi is going to offer a system called "traffic jam pilot" that does exactly that at speeds up to 37mph. Apparently it's only been approved for Florida so far. I could see Tesla offering that as an add-on. I'd hope they would add it to EAP ($5k is a lot of money!).
Audi Technology Portal - Audi A8 - Audi AI traffic jam pilot

Audi is not stupid and did not approve it in California. They know it would mean full autonomous driving in the entire LA county all day long.

 

[crackers8199]

IMO Tesla will refund money paid for FSD if begged but will invite those who did pay to apply it towards a new vehicle which is actually capable of FSD and then once those accounts are settled they will raise the price. Paying Tesla for a feature which does not exist is just a donation to the cause. Love ‘em, but dont’t trust ‘em.

they would have the mother of all class action lawsuits on their hands if they tried to do that. they clearly advertised the model 3 as having all the hardware needed to be fully autonomous...if they don't at the very least allow you to buy it at the price you agreed to when you bought the car including any hardware upgrades necessary, that's blatant false advertising.

it's not the customer's fault if elon was way off on what kind of computing power the car needed to pull this off.

 

[crackers8199]

No, it doesn’t handle people cutting you off well at all. Which happens all the time in SoCal traffic as you probably know. It also can’t handle a zipper merge where two freeways are coming together and lanes are lost. My experience is I still have to take over fairly frequently even in stop and go to deal with what other drivers are doing that AP can’t handle.

i'm not sure what you're doing, but i can't remember even one time in the three months i've had the car where i had to take over in stop and go traffic for someone cutting me off.

as for merges, that's something completely different entirely and not at all relevant to the discussion of whether or not it handles stop and go traffic well, which it does. i have no idea why it's not working for you, but perhaps you should contact tesla and ask them if there's something wrong with your car.

 

[CapnOMatic]

They really need to clarify what’s going on. I think Elon has come to the realization that FSD is not as easily achievable as he thought and he decided to dial the whole thing back. It’s really unclear what happens for those of use who already fronted the $$$. I think they have a liability on their hands with everyone who already purchased FSD.

I would not worry as the quarterly earnings conference call will be happening in just a few days in Nov. That question will certainly be asked as it is a critical mission factor.

 

[aronth5]

I will be happy with FSD MOTT...
Full Self Driving Most of The Time

 

[Garlan Garner]

Surprise Surprise. SuperCharging referrals changed again.

Tesla tweaks referral program, replacing $100 credit with six months free supercharging


While folks think EAP and FSD features can't be changed/interchanged/exchanged?


Question: What is the referral program going to look like in 3 weeks? Anyone care to place a wager?
Question: What will EAP look like in 3 weeks?
Question: Will FSD be back on the website in 3 weeks?

No speculation please - facts only!! lol

 

[daniel]

how do you incrementally roll out "full self driving?" either the car drives itself or it doesn't...

As I've said elsewhere, this comes of using the term "FSD" to mean two entirely different things! On the one hand, it's used, and commonly understood, to mean a car that does not require a driver. You can sleep in the back seat or send it by itself to pick up the kids. On the other hand, Tesla uses it, and some here use it, to refer to a package of unspecified driver-assist options which Elon optimistically believes will eventually lead to a full-self-driving car.

You can incrementally roll out a set of features. You're not incrementally rolling out a car that needs no driver. You are bringing the car closer and closer to the day when it will become fully self-driven.

IMO Tesla will refund money paid for FSD if begged but will invite those who did pay to apply it towards a new vehicle which is actually capable of FSD and then once those accounts are settled they will raise the price. Paying Tesla for a feature which does not exist is just a donation to the cause. Love ‘em, but dont’t trust ‘em.

There is no need for them to wait to raise the price. Elon said that the car had all the needed hardware for FSD so he cannot charge extra for the needed extra hardware. But I don't remember Tesla ever promising that the after-purchase price for FSD would remain unchanged. They could raise the price tomorrow for anyone who has not already paid for it. Once you've paid, they cannot charge you any more and must retrofit the car as needed.

A bigger question is, what happens when the cars reach typical retirement age, say ten years, and true full self-driving is still not available? People will want their money back, Tesla will give it back without interest, and some disgruntled customers will want interest.

When a farmer sells wheat futures on a crop he has not yet harvested, he is obligated to deliver the wheat even if his crop fails. So he buys crop insurance. What happens when you sell "futures" on a technology that does not yet exist? At what date can buyers reasonably claim that the delay constitutes breach of promise?

 

[Garlan Garner]

A bigger question is, what happens when the cars reach typical retirement age, say ten years, and true full self-driving is still not available? People will want their money back, Tesla will give it back without interest, and some disgruntled customers will want interest.

When a farmer sells wheat futures on a crop he has not yet harvested, he is obligated to deliver the wheat even if his crop fails. So he buys crop insurance. What happens when you sell "futures" on a technology that does not yet exist? At what date can buyers reasonably claim that the delay constitutes breach of promise?

Features of FSD is good enough.

Features of EAP has been good enough.



There is no breach of contract on EAP - even though we only have features.

 

[Az_Rael]

i'm not sure what you're doing, but i can't remember even one time in the three months i've had the car where i had to take over in stop and go traffic for someone cutting me off.

as for merges, that's something completely different entirely and not at all relevant to the discussion of whether or not it handles stop and go traffic well, which it does. i have no idea why it's not working for you, but perhaps you should contact tesla and ask them if there's something wrong with your car.

There is nothing wrong with my car. I am sure you will eventually encounter AP not handling someone cutting you off well. As for merges, those are relevant because that is where stop and go traffic is most of the time. I don’t have my HOV stickers on my car 100% of the time, so I am often mired in the lanes dealing with other traffic merging in.

 

[daniel]

Features of FSD is good enough.

Features of EAP has been good enough.

There is no breach of contract on EAP - even though we only have features.

I never claimed there was breach of promise on EAP. I said that if Tesla does not deliver on its promise of full self-driving coming to the owners of Model 3s who paid for the FSD package, it would be breach of promise.

And to date there are no "FSD features." Buyers of the FSD package have not yet received any features that buyers of EAP have not also gotten. And while Tesla has backtracked from promising a full self-driving car, to talking about the "FSD" options package, they were talking about cars that do not require anybody in the driver's seat when they were selling the FSD package. People bought the FSD package because Tesla told them that at some unspecified date in the future their car would not require a driver. If that date comes after the reasonable expected lifetime of the car, that would be breach of promise.

Tesla overpromised, and that could bite them in the ass. I never believed that true full self-driving would come before it's time for me to trade up to a newer car, or that the sensors in the 2018 Model 3 would be adequate for full self-driving, so I bought EAP but not FSD. FSD is a pig in a poke at this time. EAP is fabulous and I love my car.

 

[JeffK]

I never claimed there was breach of promise on EAP. I said that if Tesla does not deliver on its promise of full self-driving coming to the owners of Model 3s who paid for the FSD package, it would be breach of promise.

And to date there are no "FSD features." Buyers of the FSD package have not yet received any features that buyers of EAP have not also gotten. And while Tesla has backtracked from promising a full self-driving car, to talking about the "FSD" options package, they were talking about cars that do not require anybody in the driver's seat when they were selling the FSD package. People bought the FSD package because Tesla told them that at some unspecified date in the future their car would not require a driver. If that date comes after the reasonable expected lifetime of the car, that would be breach of promise.

Tesla overpromised, and that could bite them in the ass. I never believed that true full self-driving would come before it's time for me to trade up to a newer car, or that the sensors in the 2018 Model 3 would be adequate for full self-driving, so I bought EAP but not FSD. FSD is a pig in a poke at this time. EAP is fabulous and I love my car.

It really bites people who've bought FSD and were on a two year lease.

 

[JG T3SLA]

I completely assume I’ll never get FSD on my model 3 even though I preordered FSD. This car will long be replaced with another one by that time. In the interim I’m looking forward to “FSD features” that I think are going to begin rolling out exclusively to those who paid for more than just EAP.

Once FSD is actually 100% out, I’m buying a model X sized car or bigger to have room to chill and unwind while traveling.

 

[crackers8199]

There is nothing wrong with my car. I am sure you will eventually encounter AP not handling someone cutting you off well. As for merges, those are relevant because that is where stop and go traffic is most of the time. I don’t have my HOV stickers on my car 100% of the time, so I am often mired in the lanes dealing with other traffic merging in.

there's plenty of stop and go traffic to go around everywhere, not just where people are merging. maybe sit in one of the middle lanes if you're having such an issue...all i can tell you is i've never had a problem.

 

[crackers8199]

Features of FSD is good enough.

Features of EAP has been good enough.



There is no breach of contract on EAP - even though we only have features.

we only have features of EAP because it's a suite of features. you seem to keep ignoring that the other feature is named "FULL SELF DRIVING." either the car drives itself or it doesn't. if it doesn't, then it doesn't fit the term "full self driving."

if they never intended FSD to be the car driving itself all the time, they should have named it something different.

 

[daniel]

It really bites people who've bought FSD and were on a two year lease.

I hope I'm not offending anyone, but why would anyone pay for FSD on a two-year lease when none of the features exclusive to FSD have even been confirmed yet, much less released? Are there people who seriously thought that full self-driving was less than a year away when they bought the car?