Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

[RobDickinson]

Because a tesla motor is a lot more money and potentially harder to get hold of and not available new ?

EV west charge $10-12k for a tesla drive unit

 

[thesmokingman]

Because a tesla motor is a lot more money and potentially harder to get hold of and not available new ?

EV west charge $10-12k for a tesla drive unit

Ugh, you would source them used from crashes etc etc. Buying from EV West carries a big premium. On the open market you can get a whole rear end off a P100D for 10K, that's motor/subframe/suspension/brakes/etc. Individual motors for 2K-4K. There's also the case for existing knowledge of retrofitting Tesla motors. There's a lot of ground that others have already treaded in this regard.

Factory Five 818 Tesla powered

FF 818 kitcar built off Subaru WRX running gear with Tesla P85D electrics. Plaid level times lol

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[RobDickinson]

yeah sure you can get some crashed vehicle somewhere and be lucky I guess. Hardly a similar comparison. And tbh every crashed tesla here goes for mad money

 

[electricjib]

I've driven both. While I thought in general the Mach-E was smoother it handled much poorer. The Model Y w/ 19" wheels is obviously a smoother ride than 20".

Driving the Mach E felt like driving a Outback from the mid-90's in terms of handling. Obviously that's a reach, but it just felt like a boat. I'll take some bumps and the handling. I guess everyone has a preference. But the Mach-E drove like *sugar* IMO.

 

[BMWM3Man]

All I can add is that's not a Mustang!!!!
Looks like a Mazda. Or maybe a Hyundai Santa Fe!

 

[BMWM3Man]

- CoPilot360 works great and seems to be on par with regular "AutoPilot" (man, what a name).
- The "better nav suite" still isn't as good as Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Suggesting that Tesla owners can easily have those things by adding another tablet to the car is both humorous and somewhat telling.
- The Munro videos have been interesting, but the Mach E seems to be holding up great. Tesla probably shouldn't be critiquing build quality. As C&D and many many other publications have recognized, the MME's interior cabin feels much more refined, from the seats to the textures to the quiet.

Finally, I listed the compelling reasons to choose the Mach E over the MY in the first post, and there are many: The MME is a better value, better looking, better built, smoother driving, easier to operate, and quieter car.

Maybe you should be on MMEMotorsclub.com forum(s)?

 

[BMWM3Man]

Huh?

"By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer's selling price for your selected vehicle"...

LOL I'd never deal with a Ford "F-150" type salesman type again...clearly this process will not be as easy at Tesla's.

 

[tm1v2]

I've driven both. While I thought in general the Mach-E was smoother it handled much poorer. The Model Y w/ 19" wheels is obviously a smoother ride than 20".

Driving the Mach E felt like driving a Outback from the mid-90's in terms of handling. Obviously that's a reach, but it just felt like a boat. I'll take some bumps and the handling. I guess everyone has a preference. But the Mach-E drove like *sugar* IMO.

Which Mach-E did you drive? The suspension and handling is crap on all of them *except* the GT Performance Edition. That's the only good one. It also has the best brakes and seats.

Disclaimer: I only drove two versions, the GT Performance Edition and the Premium AWD. I've looked at some reviews of other versions though, including the regular GT, and I'm quite certain the suspension is bad on all of them except the GT Performance Edition.

 

[Nakk]

Model Y suspension is on topic, because suspension is one of the few areas where the Mach-E - only in top GT PE trim - does better.

(Based on my test drives I would characterize the lower trim Mach-E suspension as merely softer than Model Y, but not better, it just trades handling for ride smoothness. Only the GT PE magneride has a clearly better ride/handling tradeoff.)

Disagree, I mean really disagree. You are seriously stating that the Mach-e MacPherson strut suspension front and rear is superior to the Y's Double wishbone up front and multilink rear suspension? Just because of a stupid shock absorber? ROFL!! Sorry, you have just lost all credibility. Shocks can be changed; you can't improve on the Mach-E's crappy suspension. There is one and only one reason the E has a more compliant ride--taller, skinnier tires and shorter wheels. These things also limit it's handling prowess. I guess Porsche screwed up on the Taycan, huh? I mean why would they use a double wishbone up front and multilink in the rear? Hmmm, kinda sounds like the Y, doesn't it? Sorry, you have not even the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Better shocks aren't going to fix the Mach-E's econo-car suspension, and the Mach-e--GT or otherwise--can't keep up with the Y on a track assuming equal drivers. I will stipulate that Paul Swift will kick my ass on the track even if he's stuck with a Mach-e. Of course, he will also slaughter me on the track if we switch cars.

 

[Nakk]

I'm glad the MYP is effective on the track and that the BMWs can't keep up
I've heard the X3M's suspension is pretty disappointing as well. Consensus seems to be that the class leader in handling/suspension is the Porsche Macan and that's what I was cross shopping the MYP against. I much preferred the ride/handling in the Porsche (but the MYP overall) and I wish that's what the Tesla felt like. I'm sure the stability control is part of the issue and it might be melodramatic to call it a complete mess at the limit but since I paid for the performance suspension I'd say if the Tesla engineers did their job I shouldn't be able to improve it with a $2400 set of aftermarket coilovers...

Have you been to a track much? I mean seriously, just how many bone stock cars do you see there???? Struts are a pretty common mod. You need a quality suspension to mod though, to really do well. Hmmm, which SUV holds the track record at Buttonwillow? Is it the Macan? No, that's not it. What was it? It's right on the tip of my tongue... Hmm. I remember there was an SUV that beat both a Corvette Grand Sport and a Porsche 911 Turbo (997). Oh yeah, I remember now. It was a Model Y. Modified? Yes. Still, you have to start with something incredible to do that. Buttonwillow track record

 

[RobStark]

Disagree, I mean really disagree. You are seriously stating that the Mach-e MacPherson strut suspension front and rear is superior to the Y's Double wishbone up front and multilink rear suspension? Just because of a stupid shock absorber? ROFL!! Sorry, you have just lost all credibility. Shocks can be changed; you can't improve on the Mach-E's crappy suspension.

I disagree. I mean really disagree.

Magnetic ride systems are pretty complex and are way more than just simple adjustable dampers. They are worthless without the software to control them and sensors to help the computer plan what to do. You can't just put a magneride shock absorber into a Tesla and have it work.

Porsche won't use the GM invented magneride system for the same reason VW Group would not use the Mercedes invented adblue system. Because it was not invented inside the VW Group.

 

[tm1v2]

Disagree, I mean really disagree. You are seriously stating that the Mach-e MacPherson strut suspension front and rear is superior to the Y's Double wishbone up front and multilink rear suspension? Just because of a stupid shock absorber? ROFL!! Sorry, you have just lost all credibility. Shocks can be changed; you can't improve on the Mach-E's crappy suspension. There is one and only one reason the E has a more compliant ride--taller, skinnier tires and shorter wheels. These things also limit it's handling prowess. I guess Porsche screwed up on the Taycan, huh? I mean why would they use a double wishbone up front and multilink in the rear? Hmmm, kinda sounds like the Y, doesn't it? Sorry, you have not even the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Better shocks aren't going to fix the Mach-E's econo-car suspension, and the Mach-e--GT or otherwise--can't keep up with the Y on a track assuming equal drivers. I will stipulate that Paul Swift will kick my ass on the track even if he's stuck with a Mach-e. Of course, he will also slaughter me on the track if we switch cars.

I guess track times for CUVs are a selling point!

Nakk how many times have you taken your Model Y to the track? How does it do? How long does the drivetrain cooling last? Had to make any cooling modifications? Does a single charge get you through a typical track day, or do you swing down to the Buttonwillow Supercharger for lunch break? What brake pads and tires are you running and how many days do you get out of them? Do you back off on longer straights to keep from overheating the drivetrain or brakes? I'm genuinely curious!

A Model Y is a lot of weight and power and just kind of tall to hustle around a track all day long if you're not getting paid to do it. Wouldn't have occurred to me to track or race one, but I'm glad you're making it work.

 

[BMWM3Man]

I disagree. I mean really disagree.

Magnetic ride systems are pretty complex and are way more than just simple adjustable dampers. They are worthless without the software to control them and sensors to help the computer plan what to do. You can't just put a magneride shock absorber into a Tesla and have it work.

Porsche won't use the GM invented magneride system for the same reason VW Group would not use the Mercedes invented adblue system. Because it was not invented inside the VW Group.

That's why "we got software"!!!

 

[RobStark]

BTW Elon said he would not use the magneride system because it consumes too much power. It uses ~5-10 kWh every ~300 miles. It is adjusting by the millisecond.

 

[tm1v2]

BTW Elon said he would not use the magneride system because it consumes too much power. It uses ~5-10 kWh every ~300 miles. It is adjusting by the millisecond.

That makes sense, but haven't the S and X moved to adaptive dampers? Have there been efficiency improvements to this tech aimed at EVs?

For what it's worth, magneride / adaptive dampers probably wouldn't be my top choice for a really sporty, nimble car. I'd rather have really good, well-tuned mechanical dampers. That's just my personal preference though from my limited experience and knowledge. For a sporty CUV I think adaptive dampers make sense (any EV efficiency issues aside).

Like on M3P, or anything more nimble, I just want good, well-tuned mechanical dampers. On MYP I would absolutely take magneride-style adaptive damping. (Again putting aside any EV efficiency issues.) That's just me and how I view these cars.

 

[thesmokingman]

I guess track times for CUVs are a selling point!

Nakk how many times have you taken your Model Y to the track? How does it do? How long does the drivetrain cooling last? Had to make any cooling modifications? Does a single charge get you through a typical track day, or do you swing down to the Buttonwillow Supercharger for lunch break? What brake pads and tires are you running and how many days do you get out of them? Do you back off on longer straights to keep from overheating the drivetrain or brakes? I'm genuinely curious!

A Model Y is a lot of weight and power and just kind of tall to hustle around a track all day long if you're not getting paid to do it. Wouldn't have occurred to me to track or race one, but I'm glad you're making it work.

Dude you really ignore facts when it suits you which is why I posted data and then you ignore that too.

Now it's what, oh all this ability in the Y to do fast lap times, oh who gives a crap? Go ad hominem make fun of the point? Why do we have testing at all anyways, you'll just ignore facts lmao.

 

[thesmokingman]

That makes sense, but haven't the S and X moved to adaptive dampers? Have there been efficiency improvements to this tech aimed at EVs?

For what it's worth, magneride / adaptive dampers probably wouldn't be my top choice for a really sporty, nimble car. I'd rather have really good, well-tuned mechanical dampers. That's just my personal preference though from my limited experience and knowledge. For a sporty CUV I think adaptive dampers make sense (any EV efficiency issues aside).

Like on M3P, or anything more nimble, I just want good, well-tuned mechanical dampers. On MYP I would absolutely take magneride-style adaptive damping. (Again putting aside any EV efficiency issues.) That's just me and how I view these cars.

Get over it. The Y's dampers are how they are. Could they stand to be developed longer sure however that would add evem more cost and it's their midrange low cost platform. But clearly someone is ignoring where the emphasis of Tesla's engineering is centered on, oh yea that battery, the motors, the software... what's that worth? I'm getting tired of reading your whine.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Huh?

"By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer's selling price for your selected vehicle"...

LOL I'd never deal with a Ford "F-150" type salesman type again...clearly this process will not be as easy at Tesla's.


View attachment 729048

Don‘t forget after the sales guy comes the finance guy who talks just like the sales guy peddling windshield wiper insurance, LoJack, and all sorts of bells and whistles.

 

[thesmokingman]

Don‘t forget after the sales guy comes the finance guy who talks just like the sales guy peddling windshield wiper insurance, LoJack, and all sorts of bells and whistles.

Don't forget the undercarriage protection!

 

[john5520]

Don‘t forget after the sales guy comes the finance guy who talks just like the sales guy peddling windshield wiper insurance, LoJack, and all sorts of bells and whistles.

And he gets really antsy when he realizes you're not being bamboozled by his predatory skills, trying every trick in the book to see what sticks. Dealership scumbaggery is in a category by itself.