That's a highly variable thing. If you're in -30F in somewhere like Alaska, the car might not charge at all for a while (until the pack heats itself back up to 32F). If it's like 40F and you've let the car sit overnight, I would expect around 50kW.
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My battery was at 50% SoC. So I wasn't expecting extremely high kW. I just figured it would be more than 37kW.
RTPEV
Active Member
Well, there are two different navigation techniques for third party charging stations, and I'm not sure which you are referring to.
The ones Tesla "knows about": Touch the "Navigate" dialog box. Then touch the "Charging" tab. Make sure the "two lightning bolt" filter is selected - which is a mix of Urban Superchargers and the third party EVgos with built in adapters. You'll see a list of the charging sites. Select one, and it will do preconditioning on the way.
Alternatively, touch the "Navigate" dialog box. Then type something like "Electrify America" via the on-screen keyboard. You'll get a list of them. If you select one, NO preconditioning will be done on the way.
I don't know if third party sites other than EVgo are supported. But there are several of the EVgos with Tesla support near me here in Silicon Valley. One of the closest to me is the Whole Foods in Cupertino - which is always busy. However it is very near the new 28 stall Cupertino Supercharger site, so most Tesla folks would never need to use it. Another close one is the Lucky Supermarket in Los Altos - which is usually not very busy. It has been my EVgo "test site" in the past. This latter site simply has a normal CHAdeMO adapter hung on a cable. So isn't one of the nicer, more integrated, ones - and interestingly does NOT show up on the "two lightning bolt" listing. (Last time I used it, the charger I was using only gave me like 18 kW - whereas I've gotten much better rates on it in the past. So it was clearly broken, and EVgo gave me a refund. There are two charging stations on site, but I didn't try the other one.)
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If you tap "charging" on the map search bar these stations show up on the map but they don't show on the written list with power levels shown. My experience is that only the stations on the written list with power levels (Superchargers + EV-Go stations with built-in chademo adapters), allow for on-route warm up.
Huh. All the EVgos on my "two lightning bolt" listing say "50 kW max". I scrolled through the entire list and every one had the 50 kW power level associated with it. Besides the EVgos, the only others that show up on my list are the various local Urban Superchargers - which are 72 kW.
Are you saying that Francis and Chargepoint also show up on your "two lightning bolt" listing? There are several Chargepoint DCFC locations around here - including one fairly near my house, and also the Chargepoint mothership itself. They don't show up on my display. None have integrated Tesla support like EVgo does.
Or perhaps you also have the "one lightning bolt" filter enabled? That shows a lot of destination charging. Many, but not all, have a power level shown.
Was it easy to attach the adapter to the charge cable? I wonder if the adapter clicked in all the way? I’ve had that issue with the chademo adapter and after removing and reattaching firmly was able to get 48kw
As far as I know, every DC fast charging protocol allows the car to instruct the charger how much current to provide. But that wasn't my question. My question was how fast the battery supercharges when it's cold.
RTPEV
Active Member
Sorry if I misunderstood your question, but the answer is pretty much the same. It's up to the car and has nothing to do with the Supercharger, or the DCFC (unless either is broken).
And it's not so much as the DC fast charging protocols allowing the car to instruct the charger how much power to provide, but it's the very essence of DC fast charging. The car always instructs the charger how much current or voltage to provide, and the charger complies as best it can.
Yeah, so my question was essentially how fast does a Tesla vehicle allow the battery to charge when it's cold? It would obviously depend on the exact temperature but has anyone ever seen anything at or below 37 kW? It appears that the answer to this question is "yes", and that the car may not charge at all if it's -30F outside, and if it's 40F and you've let the car sit for a while, you may start out as low as 50 kW.
This was already answered:
You haven't said any indication of what temperature you mean by your term "cold". There was a guy (with an older Model S) who came to see me here in Boise, and we had dinner while he charged some, and then he went on to Twin Falls. He made the mistake of not charging before going to their hotel. The car sat overnight to where the car got cold soaked down in the single digits Fahrenheit, and then they were thinking they would just hit up the Supercharger and go in the morning. It was about a half hour doing no actual charging at all, while it just used what it could get from the Supercharger strictly for trying to warm up the battery to the point where it could take any current at all without damaging it.
And then no, it won't start at 37 kW. That chemical effect of charging lithium ion batteries versus temperature is a sliding curve. Below a certain temperature, any charging will damage it. Once it gets warm enough, it can start to take some very very low current levels, and that will continue to be able to gradually increase charging power as the temperature of the battery continues to rise. So it won't go from nothing to 37 kW. You will see it begin from 0 and start counting up: 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.
I'll go back and check when I get back to my car but I bet you're right. I don't filter it down with the lightning bolts. I likely have it on the lowest setting. Those chargers do in fact have 200kW in power capability a lot of the time but I don't believe Tesla shows that when I click them on the map.
Depends on the definition of "your battery is cold" and which battery you have (chemistry/size), but for some examples:
shows TeslaBjorn getting around 20 kW on an SR he'd coldsoaked... and about closer to 100 after some driving/light yoyoing
Without watching CAN data, you don't know what temp your battery is sitting at. With CCS, even 70F isn't enough to get the fast charge rates. Based on the disparity between power from the station and power reported by the car, your pack was definitely being heated. It takes a minimal amount of 'yoy-oing' to raise pack heat significantly.
Also of note: on a road trip your pack will rarely be as cold as it is when just driving to a charger to test.
Also of note: on a road trip your pack will rarely be as cold as it is when just driving to a charger to test.
I am not sure that this is true. Our car has charged just fine with our Level 2 home charger at -30, although it first must take some time to warm the battery. I can't imagine that a Supercharger would not be able to charge at all at that temperature. Yes, it may take some time to get the battery up to temperature, but then it will charge. Actually, once the battery is warmed with our Level 2 charger, the charging speed at -30 is pretty much the same as any other temperature.
Sorry for the new guy question. By "yo-yoing" do you mean driving away from and back to the Supercharger?
We had a situation a couple of months ago where our 2021 MYLR was cold soaked to single digits below zero Fahrenheit overnight, followed by a 15-minute mostly Interstate highway drive to the SC. The SC energy only heated the pack for something like 10-15 minutes and we never did get above 30-something kW in the next 45 minutes of charging before we ran out of time and had to leave. Would "yo-yoing" on city streets rather than at highway speed make a difference?
My understanding of yo-yoing is that it is when one alternates between heavy power and heavy regen (floor the accelerator then let off all the way). This cannot always be accomplished safely in all traffic conditions. If one is willing to drive in this manner, it can assist in heating the battery beyond the preconditioners. This works because it is a fairly inefficient use of the powertrain which results in excess heat that can be used to heat the battery. If you're able to get a car in a preconditioning state, all the better since it will add a few extra kW of heating power.
So I just took a look. Even with three Lightning Bolts selected, I’m seeing a bunch of chargers including a set of Francis 200kW chargers and a FreeWire 120kW Charger in Jenks, OK. They do not show power levels when I click them and they are not on the written list. Navigating to them does not activate preconditioning.
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Mockingbird
Member
CCS is non-proprietary and was the preferred choice for most European and American automakers.
It wasn't just Volkswagen who wanted to use CCS.
Also, do you seriously want to count the CHAdeMO adapter that was out-of-stock 99% of the time and that the majority of Tesla drivers don't even have?
Mockingbird
Member
Do you seriously want to count the CHAdeMO adapter that was out-of-stock 99% of the time and that most Tesla drivers don't even have?
