Cops don't like losing to a Model S!

[Ugliest1]

Needless to say I always stop if I see the yellow light come since then, although I may need surgery on my right foot, it gets heavier all the time

This reminds me of the thread someone started a year or so ago about the Tesla Dilemma: do I boot it through the yellow to make the light, or do I stop to get the fun of the 0-to-X acceleration?

 

[cpa]

Slightly digressing here: I don't know the traffic citation environment in Florida, but here in California, it SEEMS that most traffic violations are written for speeding and cell phone/texting/seatbelt violations. (I have not received a ticket in 27 years.) Running red lights, failure to stop, unsafe lane changes, etc. do not appear high of the list of citeable offenses any more. I theorize as follows: The legislature has not raised the statutory fines for traffic violations in over 40 years. (Most base fines are $35.) However, the legislature created a judicial committee that meets periodically to assess add-on penalties, court costs, court construction repayment, appearance fees, etc. Speeding tickets are around $350-$500 depending on jurisdiction, but the basic fine is still about $35.

When fines were cheap, most violators did not bother to fight the ticket; they just ponied up the cash or went to traffic school. As a result the citing officer rarely had to kill a whole day in court. I have been told that the appearance dates are generally on the officer's day off, or before his shift, so are overtime hours. In any event, speeding and the cell phone/seatbelt violations are EASY for the officer to prove if the driver decides to fight the citation, as the officer has hard evidence with his radar gun or easily-obtainable cell phone records. However, many traffic violations are quite subjective as has been pointed out above. Officer: "You are exhibiting unsafe acceleration." Driver: "But officer I never exceeded the speed limit." These are much harder for the citing officer to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt," so perhaps the traffic officers are less likely to cite as they wind up spending wasted time in court that results in dismissal of the citation. They would much rather have a 95% success rate on traffic violations than a 40% success rate. Hence, warnings are issued to make drivers think twice for a day or two.

But, I am not a cop, and I could easily be wrong!

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the main factor is because it's very rare situation that someone tries to out accelerate a cop. So probably most cops have little to no experience writing such tickets (the stature is sufficiently vague that it's hard to tell when it is citeable; I think the only obvious case is if you leave tire marks on the pavement or chirp your tires). That combined with what you mentioned (other violations are much easier to prove) means most cops probably don't bother to write such a ticket.

 

[thegruf]

slightly reluctantly joining this thread of entirely predicatable counterpoints, however

Assuming T/C on and no loss of traction, can somebody please define at what rate of acceleration does this "unsafe start" law apply?

I guess the inevitable answer is not faster than the police cruiser next to you, but is that really a basis for sound law?

 

[chriSharek]

slightly reluctantly joining this thread of entirely predicatable counterpoints, however

Assuming T/C on and no loss of traction, can somebody please define at what rate of acceleration does this "unsafe start" law apply?

I guess the inevitable answer is not faster than the police cruiser next to you, but is that really a basis for sound law?

thegruf, I agree with you completely. I didn't chirp the tires, leave a mark, or wave at his as I left him in the dust. I was simply enjoying the car for what it is. Otherwise, why would we (Tesla or anyone other manufacturer) make a car that can go fast?

- - - Updated - - -

That is definitely not "all". The officer had no intention of racing you or making any attempt to see which which car was quicker off the line. Police don't do that. You are imagining that scenario. You were cited for violating a traffic law. Which based on your own description you clearly did.

And what law was that, ecarfan? I accelerated too quickly? Is that the law? And "too quickly" according to whom? COMPLETELY subjective.

The law I broke and was given a ticket for (even though it was written out to the wrong person) was that I didn't have my license with me. Now, that I understand. This "unsafe start" is absolutely bogus and everyone here knows it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

slightly reluctantly joining this thread of entirely predicatable counterpoints, however

Assuming T/C on and no loss of traction, can somebody please define at what rate of acceleration does this "unsafe start" law apply?

I guess the inevitable answer is not faster than the police cruiser next to you, but is that really a basis for sound law?

The law is sufficiently vague to give the cop and judge a lot of leeway in determining this. Obviously any loss of traction can be used against you (although there are reasonable causes for losing traction unrelated to acceleration). However, yes, out accelerating the car next to you (esp. by a large margin if you are flooring it) can be the basis for such an infraction. There is no specific rate of acceleration defined in any of these laws, but accelerating at a rate similar or quicker than most supercars, I think most officers and judges can say that is unsafe acceleration on public roads.

And I think intent matters too. If you have good reason to use lots of acceleration (for example to avoid a hazard on the road) I don't think such a citation would stick. If the only apparently reason to do so is to show off, then that's obviously a different case.

The other infraction can be for a speed contest (and that applies regardless of speed limit also). So the impression that you are safe just because you stay below the speed limit is obviously not true.

 

[thegruf]

I'm with you on most of this.
Racing/competitive driving for sure

But how the heck do you define how much acceleration you can apply 50%/75%/95%?

Speed can be measured, competitive/bad driving can be video'd, there are no widely used enforcement tools for acceleration to my knowledge.

To me this seems poor law, I suspect it was primarily intended at drivers buring rubber off the line, and is now being apparently applied dependent totally on "judgement" and is unquantifiiable in any rational way.

This isn't supporting bad driving, but I do get irritated at poorly conceived laws and the sense of unfairness and loss of respect for enforcement they generate (we have a good few of these in the UK too).

 

[Lerxt]

You are lucky he didn't shoot you on the spot! This seems to be the season for it in the U.S....

It would seem to me that the Sherriff would be the least qualified to determine whether the acceleration was unsafe.

 

[cwerdna]

Did it have the fake wood trim racing stripe on the side? Probably made it look quicker than it is

Nope. The "wood" on the side were for earlier generations, apparently (per Dodge Caravan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

 

[markb1]

In any event, speeding and the cell phone/seatbelt violations are EASY for the officer to prove if the driver decides to fight the citation, as the officer has hard evidence with his radar gun or easily-obtainable cell phone records.

Do you have a reference to a case where cell phone records were pulled for a simple infraction? If there's a more serious charge, especially a felony charge, sure. But traffic infractions in California go to traffic court, where the cases are typically not heard by judges. Very little preparation is put into these cases. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of getting a warrant for cell records in this situation.

 

[JRP3]

I think if one were to actually be cited for unsafe acceleration it would be reasonable in court to ask what your recorded rate of acceleration actually was and what rate of acceleration is allowed by law. Since I suspect no value would exist for either, and assuming no other evidence available, the ticket would likely be thrown out.

 

[breser]

In most states the only time these sorts of wishy washy moving violations are handed out is as a plea deal for a DUI stop. In California they use Exhibition of Speed. Up here in Washington, Due Care.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Revenue for the city - -just another BS tax...

 

[chriSharek]

So I went downtown to the courthouse today to pay the other guy's fine and was told I couldn't. I had to go to the Sheriff's Office to get it corrected first.

I walked down to the Sheriff's Office. The officer who wrote it has to change it. He doesn't work until tomorrow, so I have to wait.

I did ask the clerk if I was to walk away if this would go against someone else's record and she did confirm.

So, for all you "you shouldn't have done that" posters in the thread, know (1) that I'm trying to do the right thing and (2) I'm having to waste my time tracking down the idiot cop's mistake. Thought you all might appreciate that.

 

[MartinAustin]

Consider it appreciated

 

[LetsGoFast]

Assuming T/C on and no loss of traction, can somebody please define at what rate of acceleration does this "unsafe start" law apply?

This is why I said that the case will be kicked by the judge without evidence of loss of control, weaving or tire spinning. Merely accelerating quickly is not going to be held to be "unsafe" in any jurisdiction.

The law is sufficiently vague to give the cop and judge a lot of leeway in determining this. Obviously any loss of traction can be used against you (although there are reasonable causes for losing traction unrelated to acceleration). However, yes, out accelerating the car next to you (esp. by a large margin if you are flooring it) can be the basis for such an infraction. There is no specific rate of acceleration defined in any of these laws, but accelerating at a rate similar or quicker than most supercars, I think most officers and judges can say that is unsafe acceleration on public roads.

This is not a remotely permissable definition of "safety." If the traffic code being cited is Florida 316.154 (the only reference to "start" in the traffic code for Florida), you only have to start the car in a situation with "reasonable safety" which is even more permissive than simply "safety." Furthermore, the statute refers to a parked vehicle, so any citation for acceleration from a traffic light might fail on that basis as well.

It would be an even harder sell on the drag racing section cited earlier, which is so poorly written with regard to exhibition of speed compared to traffic code elsewhere that I seriously doubt anyone could be convicted without some kind of multi-car contest.

 

[GreenT]

So I went downtown snip the idiot cop's mistake. Thought you all might appreciate that.

No ... I doubt anyone appreciates it ... you've already dug yourself a VERY DEEP HOLE and now you choose to further insult the cop who was doing his job!

What you should have said was - the cop whose action, in your opinion, was idiotic.

And to what another person here contributed ... you are supposed to be setting an example, being an ambassador ...

I suggest you lay low, VERY low, for a months as your reputation here is likely very tarnished. (Not that the real world cares ... this is only TMC.) But, please, if you meet people at SuperChargers, don't tell this story ...

If reputation points were still awarded, I'd hate to see the shade of red you would have earned.

 

[chriSharek]

No ... I doubt anyone appreciates it ... you've already dug yourself a VERY DEEP HOLE and now you choose to further insult the cop who was doing his job!

What you should have said was - the cop whose action, in your opinion, was idiotic.

And to what another person here contributed ... you are supposed to be setting an example, being an ambassador ...

I suggest you lay low, VERY low, for a months as your reputation here is likely very tarnished. (Not that the real world cares ... this is only TMC.) But, please, if you meet people at SuperChargers, don't tell this story ...

If reputation points were still awarded, I'd hate to see the shade of red you would have earned.

If I was trying to brag or be a jerk, I would walk away from this entire situation - and because of the cop's incompetence, I would walk free and clear. HOWEVER, I AM trying to do the right thing and get it fixed, regardless of the County's inability to correct THEIR problem.

And lastly, GreenT, I don't know anything about reputation points. I haven't a clue - I've only been here since February. If I'm getting dinged for being honest, then so be it. I can't apologize for being honest.

 

[bonnie]

So I went downtown to the courthouse today to pay the other guy's fine and was told I couldn't. I had to go to the Sheriff's Office to get it corrected first.

I walked down to the Sheriff's Office. The officer who wrote it has to change it. He doesn't work until tomorrow, so I have to wait.

I did ask the clerk if I was to walk away if this would go against someone else's record and she did confirm.

So, for all you "you shouldn't have done that" posters in the thread, know (1) that I'm trying to do the right thing and (2) I'm having to waste my time tracking down the idiot cop's mistake. Thought you all might appreciate that.

Even if the ticket is thrown out, it appears that the "idiot cop" you baited has extracted his justice and you are paying a price. For the record, my experience has been that when writing tickets, they're very aware that leaving things blank or writing the wrong name will cause the ticket to be chucked. I had one leave the date off, but write it on my copy, so his copy that he turned in was missing a date - and I didn't realize it had been thrown out until I went to court on the date he listed and no one could find my case. I assumed at the time that he was giving me a break on the speeding ticket, but making sure I actually had to pay a price (of time and inconvenience).

Still, for the life of me, can't figure out why you'd choose to take on a cop. Just ... no.

 

[cmu5p]

Even if the ticket is thrown out, it appears that the "idiot cop" you baited has extracted his justice and you are paying a price. For the record, my experience has been that when writing tickets, they're very aware that leaving things blank or writing the wrong name will cause the ticket to be chucked. I had one leave the date off, but write it on my copy, so his copy that he turned in was missing a date - and I didn't realize it had been thrown out until I went to court on the date he listed and no one could find my case. I assumed at the time that he was giving me a break on the speeding ticket, but making sure I actually had to pay a price (of time and inconvenience).

Still, for the life of me, can't figure out why you'd choose to take on a cop. Just ... no.

bonnie, you are my hero. I want to be you when I grow up.