Dec 2021 M3P HV battery replaced - have they fitted the right one?

[Gatsojon]

What would be normal degradation after 13k miles and 18 months? I'm reading some people having 4-5% after a year and tailing off after that

I’ve just checked mine and it’s saying 288 miles. That’s M3P 38 months and 26k miles.

 

[eivissa]

Wonder if I’m going to need a new 12v battery too. Doors and boot left open all weekend (and tomorrow I imagine) and the HV batt has dropped from 17% to 4%. Wonder if this is going to drain the 12v batt too…..

Discharging the battery is actually required, before removal of the pack. If they do it according to the maintenance procedure, your LV battery should not be discharge/damaged, but we've seen some cars that got a new LV battery in the process.

 

[eivissa]

I’ve just checked mine and it’s saying 288 miles. That’s M3P 38 months and 26k miles.

This thread is about the Panasonic 82kWh NCA pack with 5.0A low cobalt cells. Your degradation report is about the Panasonic 78kWh NCA pack with 4.8Ah high cobalt cells. Your older pack seems to be aging a little better than the one we are discussing here and it certainly charges faster!

 

[DBM3P]

My Q4 2021 M3P (23k miles) is also in for a new pack. Been there for nearly 2 weeks now, the car hasnt moved a mm and they are waiting for my pack to arrive - it’s on a ship somewhere.

I was at 294 ish miles at 90% and hadn’t even considered they would put a degraded pack in! Will keep an eye on it when I get it back.

Update - the car is now inside, boot, bonnet and doors are open so guess they have started something!

Also let us know what part number you have on the invoice.

Discharging the battery is actually required, before removal of the pack. If they do it according to the maintenance procedure, your LV battery should not be discharge/damaged, but we've seen some cars that got a new LV battery in the process.

for reference, the service center have left mine to discharge too. Woke up today and it’s at 0% according to the app. Let’s see if I get a new 12v battery or not

 

[M1tch]

for reference, the service center have left mine to discharge too. Woke up today and it’s at 0% according to the app. Let’s see if I get a new 12v battery or not

Mine is at 0% today too. We shall see what happens. Estimate for collection is Thursday - but I’ll save a 5 hour trip and do it Friday on the commute home.

 

[M1tch]

I’m at 25% SoC as of this afternoon so looks like they are definitely working on it and things are happening.

Edit - and now it’s charging!

 

[M1tch]

So it’s charged to 94% overnight and showing 260 mile range. That is a huge drop in what in what I used to have.

Is range likely to increase with a few charge cycles on this or with it being (likely) a refurbished pack is it already at its optimum output?

 

[DBM3P]

So it’s charged to 94% overnight and showing 260 mile range. That is a huge drop in what in what I used to have.

Is range likely to increase with a few charge cycles on this or with it being (likely) a refurbished pack is it already at its optimum output?

I’ll take @eivissa lead on this one, but it looks like over on the German forum that the range decreases after a few charges - not increases.

 

[eivissa]

Is range likely to increase with a few charge cycles on this or with it being (likely) a refurbished pack is it already at its optimum output?

It might go up, once you charge it to 100% and the BMS finds more capacity above the expected 100% and after a couple of cycles. For most it didnt change much anymore. In your case, the most interesting part is, which part number did you get?

Just from that rated range extrapolation it is very very certain, that this is not a US made pack with a "423" part number. The other packs performed much worse. You rated range matches packs with part number 1137377-##-#, but hopefully you will be able to verifiy this via the invoice.

Panasonic 82kWh Degradation Survey

Graphs <a href="http://forms.gle/YXKH4R5z8VUkQ4RG6">Click here! ⟶ Panasonic 82kWh Degradation Survey ⟵ Click here!</a>

docs.google.com

 

[WannabeOwner]

So it’s charged to 94% overnight and showing 260 mile range

I would charge to 100% (and allow time to let it finish, and then be planning to drive somewhere so it doesn't sit at 100%) to get the calls balanced / BMS recalibrated.

I'd also see what the wH/mile on a decent length journey is (compared to before) and also the max range (I'm just wondering if the predicted max range might have changed, because different battery pack, but the wH/mile and the ensuing calculation of max range, might be different - and, hopefully, similar to "before"

 

[M1tch]

Concern:
Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty
Customer states: Range - I had the above message while driving the car on 2 occasions today. If this will be more than a days work I will require a courtesy car to get home again as you are 50 mins from home
Total Parts Amount 0.00 Total Labour Amount 0.00
3
Investigated range loss. found range loss due to excessive voltage imbalance within the high voltage battery. Replaced HV battery.
Correction: Remote Diagnosis
Correction: HV Battery (AWD) (Remove & Replace) Parts Replaced or Added
HVBAT,REMAN,LONG RANGE,AWD-RWD,3PH,M3 (1137377-01-W) Correction: General Diagnosis
Pay Type: HV Battery Limited Warranty
0.30 3.80
1.00 0.50
165.00 165.00
8,658.33 165.00

This is a copy and paste from my invoice. Anyone able to shed light on if it’s what it should be?

 

[eivissa]

1137377-01-W

You rated range matches packs with part number 1137377-##-#

Well, there you go. That is a refurbished/remanufactured Panasonic 3L. So it is the correct battery pack, but these were the ones with the worst capacity so far. I have had some customers come to me for a BMS readout and there were some packs with over a 100 cycles already. The donor car must have done almost 100k miles before it was "refurbished". Not to say that you one will have those values, but your reported range so far, matches the bad range that others have reported with this part number.

 

[Adopado]

Well, there you go. That is a refurbished/remanufactured Panasonic 3L. So it is the correct battery pack, but these were the ones with the worst capacity so far. I have had some customers come to me for a BMS readout and there were some packs with over a 100 cycles already. The donor car must have done almost 100k miles before it was "refurbished". Not to say that you one will have those values, but your reported range so far, matches the bad range that others have reported with this part number.

My own battery report from Tessie app states I have 251 cycles and this on an original battery (M3 SR+) after 33,000 miles ... so how does 100 cycles equate to 100k miles?

 

[MP3Mike]

I have had some customers come to me for a BMS readout and there were some packs with over a 100 cycles already. The donor car must have done almost 100k miles before it was "refurbished".

For round figures, a cycle would be ~300 miles. So that pack had about ~30k miles on it before it was refurbished...

I'm not sure how you think a cycle is ~1000 miles...

 

[eivissa]

My own battery report from Tessie app states I have 251 cycles and this on an original battery (M3 SR+) after 33,000 miles ... so how does 100 cycles equate to 100k miles?

I have no idea what Tessy App is reporting, but it certainly can't read the true BMS data.

For round figures, a cycle would be ~300 miles. So that pack had about ~30k miles on it before it was refurbished...

Well, I said "over" 100 cycles, right? Sorry if this triggered an answer.

This is a readout from a refurbished battery pack that was installed in a car with only 41.000km, just recently.

• This is also "notorious" part number 1137377-01-W.
• This car had only 41.000km when the Panasonic 3L 82kWH made in China failed.
• The "new" (remanufactured) battery has got 389 charge cycles and a charge total of 22500kWh, most of it DC charges!
• Applying the consumption constant of the M3P of 158,5Wh/km this estimates to 142.000km. 100.000km more than the car was driven!
• Cell imbalance is also not very good, although this could be sorted with balancing after a couple of charges.
• Capacity results in about 13% degradation already, although a car at this age and range should be at 6-7%.

Source

 

[DBM3P]

My own battery report from Tessie app states I have 251 cycles and this on an original battery (M3 SR+) after 33,000 miles ... so how does 100 cycles equate to 100k miles?

You’ve got a smaller battery, more cycles

For reference, Tessie says 62 cycles for mine at 12k miles. It knows my loan has 166 cycles at 24k miles - so must be getting that from somewhere

 

[DBM3P]

Looks like my car is nearly ready… 27% or 75mil charge and Tessie extrapolates that to 278 miles at 100%

 

[Adopado]

You’ve got a smaller battery, more cycles

For reference, Tessie says 62 cycles for mine at 12k miles. It knows my loan has 166 cycles at 24k miles - so must be getting that from somewhere

I appreciate that Tessie will be extrapolating from a less than full picture because I only started using it a few months ago so accuracy will be questionable. The cycle difference because of the smaller battery will be in proportion… about 25% more cycles for the same distance as a LR or Performance battery by my reckoning.

 

[DBM3P]

I've got my service invoice. Part number 1137377-01-W. Predicted range at 100% currently around 274-278 miles. That's about a 13% degradation from the 315 new value. Feel cheated, as the car is not even 2 years old and done 12k miles. The range may go up after x cycles etc, but still.

 

[eivissa]

Actually, in the UK you didn't buy 315 miles EPA (as the US), but 353 miles WLTP. The car, showing you EPA consumption and range, stops at 315 miles / 80,6kWh. Though your 353 miles WLTP resembles 321 miles on the indicator (82kWh). Though, as you know, the car stops it's indication at 315 miles. 278 miles therefore is 13-14% as you stated.

This part number never delivered good capacity results and I fully understand your frustration.