Decreasing rated range.

[LazMan]

This is what I have been doing as well. If 90% daily is actually better at maintaining capacity, I don't understand why Tesla added the slider vs. the original daily/range options.

Charging to 90% might help the car report more accurately without actually being better for the battery.

First range charge in a long time this morning: 399km after 32000 km on the odometer. Very rarely charge above 80%. However, someone at the service centre (I forget who) told me that balancing occurs when the car is charged > 80%. I also had a long trip today and drove 440km with an average Wh/km of 170. Pretty good, I think.

 

[gaswalla]

This is straight from my local service center, from a senior service guy: You should charge to 90% everyday because it allows the battery to balance. No balancing occurs below 85%. By consistently charging to 90%, the battery will get balanced, and stay balanced. I asked why it is not simply stated as such, and why a slider was added: the slider was added due to the new methodology used by the EPA to state the range of a BEV: essentially averaging set points. The slider eliminates the possibility of averaging the miles at 100% and at 90% to get the EPA stated range. (note: the LEAF now only has the option to charge to 100% due to this same reason).

I've been charging to 90% now for 2 months and have seen my range at 90% increase from 212 to 228, so I do believe what I was told. (note: 212 was on FW 5.9 as is the 228)

 

[David99]

... from a senior service guy: You should charge to 90% everyday because it allows the battery to balance. No balancing occurs below 85%. ...

thanks! That's good info. Of course the fact that a lower state of charge is better for long term battery life is still true. Losing a few miles due to out of balance cells is easy to fix. Losing miles due to battery degradation is permanent.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

@gaswalla, thanks for the info. Validates what I've been doing from day one.

 

[islandbayy]

Well, I am now going to confirm. I have FINALLY lost range at 31,000 miles.
Up and through 5.9 no real noticeable range loss. Charge to 205-209 Rated at 100%.
5.11, I finally after a few days of trying to balance things out hit 203, but after the car sits for 30 minutes, it drops to 199-200 miles. After sitting for a hour, I loose 1-2% of my battery capacity (As reported by Visual Tesla), though will not allow me to start charge again. Burned through my ENTIRE battery pack Monday (Planned my route like that). Arrived home with 1 mile rated left.
Started at 100%, and immediately started my day. My consumption average for that charge was ~280 w/mile. I only got about 185 miles on the charge, despite using less then the rated range calculation of 300w/mile. Ranger was out Last Friday evening to replace a cooling pump, and reload 5.11 as it has been severally buggy for me. He checked things out and said no problem with the car or my battery. So looks like my overnight degradation will be permanent Kinda sucks, as I was doing so darn good to have potential permanent degradation literally overnight
I still need to schedule a appointment to take it to the service center. I have the rear end clunk when starting and stopping and it's getting worse, and I want to get the titanium shield installed, and now my charge port even with nothing connected sometimes pops up that the car is plugged in, so have that looked at as well. Hah, I need to joke about this, all these little problems start popping up literally 2 weeks after my 1 year ownership and I loose my ability to lemon the car out. Not that I would, just irony. Good thing I will still have my warranty for another 6 months or so (`19,000 miles away from voiding my warranty. That was a fast 1 1/2 years... and only ~2 years away from voiding my battery warranty).

 

[iKhalid]

Maybe off topic but I noticed from your posts that the difference in the rated range between the S60 and the S80 is ~335km to ~403km! So we're talking about ~70km? For some reason I always thought the difference is 100km!

 

[tomas]

and only ~2 years away from voiding my battery warranty).

Amazing, so you got your car in, what, 2008? How did you manage that?

 

[islandbayy]

Amazing, so you got your car in, what, 2008? How did you manage that?

60kW pack has a mileage limitation on the warranty of 125,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. I will have that within 2 years or less. The 85kW pack has unlimited mileage warranty 8 years.

 

[glhs272]

Well, I am now going to confirm. I have FINALLY lost range at 31,000 miles.
Up and through 5.9 no real noticeable range loss. Charge to 205-209 Rated at 100%.
5.11, I finally after a few days of trying to balance things out hit 203, but after the car sits for 30 minutes, it drops to 199-200 miles. After sitting for a hour, I loose 1-2% of my battery capacity (As reported by Visual Tesla), though will not allow me to start charge again. Burned through my ENTIRE battery pack Monday (Planned my route like that). Arrived home with 1 mile rated left.
Started at 100%, and immediately started my day. My consumption average for that charge was ~280 w/mile. I only got about 185 miles on the charge, despite using less then the rated range calculation of 300w/mile. Ranger was out Last Friday evening to replace a cooling pump, and reload 5.11 as it has been severally buggy for me. He checked things out and said no problem with the car or my battery. So looks like my overnight degradation will be permanent Kinda sucks, as I was doing so darn good to have potential permanent degradation literally overnight
I still need to schedule a appointment to take it to the service center. I have the rear end clunk when starting and stopping and it's getting worse, and I want to get the titanium shield installed, and now my charge port even with nothing connected sometimes pops up that the car is plugged in, so have that looked at as well. Hah, I need to joke about this, all these little problems start popping up literally 2 weeks after my 1 year ownership and I loose my ability to lemon the car out. Not that I would, just irony. Good thing I will still have my warranty for another 6 months or so (`19,000 miles away from voiding my warranty. That was a fast 1 1/2 years... and only ~2 years away from voiding my battery warranty).

A couple of things about your overnight degradation, do you think your cooling pump failure caused the battery to get too hot thereby degrading the cells? Or do you think that the range has been degrading over time and the software was just not getting a good read on that, therefore when you updated to 5.11 the range calc got more accurate? I too recently had a coolant pump fault (not sure if it outright failed or was just reporting to the computers improperly). However, I never did a range charge during the pump fault, also didn't drive the car hard either. When I had the SC fix the pump issue, they installed 5.11. As far as I can tell, 5.11 has not impacted my range, although I have yet to do a range charge.

 

[islandbayy]

A couple of things about your overnight degradation, do you think your cooling pump failure caused the battery to get too hot thereby degrading the cells? Or do you think that the range has been degrading over time and the software was just not getting a good read on that, therefore when you updated to 5.11 the range calc got more accurate? I too recently had a coolant pump fault (not sure if it outright failed or was just reporting to the computers improperly). However, I never did a range charge during the pump fault, also didn't drive the car hard either. When I had the SC fix the pump issue, they installed 5.11. As far as I can tell, 5.11 has not impacted my range, although I have yet to do a range charge.

I do not think so. The car will temp limit everything if it gets to hot, from accel to regen to supercharging. It was still working, just threw up a fault. I'm sure the calculations changed in 5.11 again, however, I was having no problems hitting actual rated range on 5.9. This is where I will stress to Tesla to just make the battery ware % available to the owner.

 

[FredTMC]

thanks! That's good info. Of course the fact that a lower state of charge is better for long term battery life is still true. Losing a few miles due to out of balance cells is easy to fix. Losing miles due to battery degradation is permanent.

100% agree. I keep my battery at lower SOC most of the time.

 

[tomas]

60kW pack has a mileage limitation on the warranty of 125,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. I will have that within 2 years or less. The 85kW pack has unlimited mileage warranty 8 years.

Ok, right.

Maybe you could do a ferris bueller, put it up on blocks and run in reverse for a few weeks.

 

[islandbayy]

Ok, right.

Maybe you could do a ferris bueller, put it up on blocks and run in reverse for a few weeks.

If I could

I do know someone who only leased cars, and would just disconnect the speed sensor so it was always low mileage, that is, until manufacturers started changing all that up with electronics and what not.

 

[FLDarren]

How about increased rated range. I'm sitting at 214 miles right now in a 2.5 day old 60. Of course I'm taking it with a grain of salt. View attachment 51643

 

[Matias]

Sorry to be such a killjoy, but the extra capacity drops fast.




View attachment 27334

 

[djp]

Sorry to be such a killjoy, but the extra capacity drops fast.

Three problems with the chart:

1. That's not the Tesla battery chemistry. Tesla uses a proprietary blend of electrolyte additives which extend battery life.

2. The cycles are measured as full 100% to 0% and back. Tesla limits the SOC to 95% in range mode to avoid degradation at high SOC, and most owners do partial cycles below 85% which significantly extends battery life.

3. The data is from a lab test bench, not actual driver experience.

Why do Li-ion Batteries die? And how to improve the situation?

http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/PIA-Roadster-Battery-Study.pdf

The high mileage Model S packs seem to be holding up quite well based on reports from these forums.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

How about increased rated range. I'm sitting at 214 miles right now in a 2.5 day old 60. Of course I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

Nice! Thanks, Steve...er...Darren. Seems inline with the increased rated range numbers since 5.9.

 

[Matias]

The high mileage Model S packs seem to be holding up quite well based on reports from these forums.

I have understood that the "extra" range (above spesifications) drops fast. I have thought that Tesla purposly puts some extra milage in battery because there's fast drop in the beginning. I don't see any problem with that. After few cycles degradation tapers.

 

[tslas]

I have been consistently getting 240 - 242 rated range on 90% Charge.
However, Yesterday, I plugged the car in with 230 miles rated range left.
I have scheduled charging and it starts at 3:30 AM at 22 miles/hour (I charge at 30 AMP)
Anyway, This morning, my car was at 230 miles rated range and it showed charging complete.
I was wondering, if I can somehow find out, whether it started charging or not?
Was this a Vampire loss from 3:30 AM to 7:30 AM?
OR Did I lose 10 miles of rated range overnight?

Can anyone help me understand this?
I have 4600 miles on the car and It is just shy of 1 and half month old.

Thanks

 

[FlasherZ]

I have been consistently getting 240 - 242 rated range on 90% Charge.
However, Yesterday, I plugged the car in with 230 miles rated range left.
I have scheduled charging and it starts at 3:30 AM at 22 miles/hour (I charge at 30 AMP)
Anyway, This morning, my car was at 230 miles rated range and it showed charging complete.
I was wondering, if I can somehow find out, whether it started charging or not?
Was this a Vampire loss from 3:30 AM to 7:30 AM?
OR Did I lose 10 miles of rated range overnight?

Can anyone help me understand this?
I have 4600 miles on the car and It is just shy of 1 and half month old.

Thanks

It could be the vampire charge, but 10 miles is pretty significant if your car finishes charging from a scheduled charge at 3:30 am. Perhaps the car didn't charge this morning? Tesla can tell you if you work with the service center, but it might be something you wait to determine until later.

Have you checked your charging level slider to determine whether it was accidentally set lower? Perhaps try a range charge to 100% to see where it ends up, if it seems to be set to the right amount?

A call to the service center would allow them to pull logs and look to see if there's a problem after you try those steps.