Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
He & I agreed that .003" (~.08mm) interference ought to be plenty on a part this size, and that's what I had him lathe it to.

I installed the plug yesterday. Press force was ~150 lbs (~68kgs) for half-fit, and over 250 lbs (~113 kgs) for final fit.

.003" and a dry fit, leaks badly at 20 PSI leak test.
IMG_7780.jpg
IMG_7784.jpg
IMG_7787.jpg


Now, 20 PSI is at least five times what this plug should ever see, but that's not good enough. This was a dry fit, no sealant.

I'm having another one made at .006" oversize.
 
I'm not a machinist, but I've seen what can happen when you are trying to press-fit parts together and one of them is cast aluminum.... Bang.

I'd be surprised if it took that much to press it together at .003, that you will get .006 to fit at all without destroying it.

Metal on metal is a crappy seal anyway, why I hate flare pipe connections that I've had to work with - if they aren't PERFECT, they leak. Yet you put an o-ring into a captured slot and the hose connection seals up perfectly with just finger torque. So on that vein, why not mill in an o-ring groove in the bottom of it to match the bottom of the bore and make it a permanent captured viton seal? That would be VERY likely to outlive the rest of the car.
 
I installed the plug yesterday. Press force was ~150 lbs (~68kgs) for half-fit, and over 250 lbs (~113 kgs) for final fit.

.003" and a dry fit, leaks badly at 20 PSI leak test.View attachment 1038607View attachment 1038608View attachment 1038609

Now, 20 PSI is at least five times what this plug should ever see, but that's not good enough. This was a dry fit, no sealant.

I'm having another one made at .006" oversize.
I put a bead of gasket sealant under the lip before I pressed it in. I like your pressure test system. I'll try that.
 
I'm not a machinist, but I've seen what can happen when you are trying to press-fit parts together and one of them is cast aluminum.... Bang. I'd be surprised if it took that much to press it together at .003, that you will get .006 to fit at all without destroying it..

@jatguy used ~.0075" (.19mm) and hasn't (yet) suffered casting failure ;)

why not mill in an o-ring groove in the bottom of it to match the bottom of the bore and make it a permanent captured viton seal?

It was considered early on. Problems:

An o-ring is a part that has to be able to be serviced.
You have to retain the plug in the bore via external means. Staking? Has to be un-staked to service.
Do we drill/tap for retaining screws? Outside the bore? Ugh. In the plug itself? Possible leak point.

I like o-ring seals, but not here.

just a touch of rtv n ur good to go. system only has like 5psi max...

I'm certain that .003" (~.08mm) oversize and any kind sealant would be fine.

As an example, this plug will not come out at 30 PSI, the max for my test gauge; I'll be removing the test gauge this morning, plugging the tee, and using higher pressure to remove the plug. .003" is a good fit, but with the seal counterbore's standard finish, I wanted to see how reliably this could seal without sealant, and I have my answer: not.

The system is more or less unpressurized; the only pressure differential is provided by that little coolant pump, which is designed more for volume than pressure.

I could remove the current .003" plug, apply sealant, and reinstall it, but I want to try a tighter fit as well, while I have a coolant manifold in my hand.

I like your pressure test system. I'll try that.

Can you believe it took almost an entire day to put together? I didn't have a 1/4-18 NPT tap, the bandsaw needed attention, I misplaced my gasket material, the lowest range gauge I had was too high range so I bought another (I settled on 0-30 PSI), and I had to adapt that RV blow-down adapter with the Schraeder valve, from GHT to NPT. And buy the cheap Chinese Irwin C-clamp to retain the large rubber stopper, as I couldn't fit two bar clamps in place at once, and my collection of C-clamps were all too large as well.

It's a bunch of stuff thrown together but it was a bit of fun at the end . . . just more time than I'd have liked.

---
Some math notes for me to refer to in future:

For 55mm OD aluminum cap the temperature difference of 100 degrees gives you the expansion of approx. 0.1-0.12 mm.
So if you want to squeeze the 55.12mm cap to the 55.0mm hole one will need to heat up the hole (or cool down the cap/shaft) by 100 degrees.

This is unfamiliar territory for me, so watch for mistakes . . . primary school math here . . .

Per °C: 6061 has an expansion rate of approx. [23.4 µm/m]: 23.4 * 10^-6/m/°C = .000023m/m/°C = .023mm/meter/°C
For our 55mm part, each °C:
.023mm/meter/°C / 55mm [seal counterbore] = .023mm * (55mm/1000mm) = .001265mm/m/°C
For 100°C:
.001265mm/°C * 100°C = .13mm

(~.005" for 212°F)

Working the other way 'round, I'd been using ~.002" per 100°F, so . . . close enough.

I bought some dry ice (~-108°F surface temp, so at "room temperature" I had -- on paper -- ~180°F temperature differential with the manifold not heated supplementarily) the day before yesterday, but I was unable to obtain sufficient thermal transfer to achieve anything close to "fall out" of the .003" plug from the manifold; the thermal conductivity of aluminum being what it is (excellent), I couldn't achieve sufficient temperature differential between the plug and the manifold. This implies that cooling the plug/heating the manifold may work well as an aid for installation (if one works sufficiently quickly) but isn't of benefit for disassembly . . . not that anyone except myself would want to disassemble it ;)
 
I'm certain that .003" (~.08mm) oversize and any kind sealant would be fine.

As an example, this plug will not come out at 30 PSI, the max for my test gauge; I'll be removing the test gauge this morning, plugging the tee, and using higher pressure to remove the plug.
I didn't find the exact force required to remove the plug, but it popped out promptly using 100 PSI.
 
I installed the plug yesterday. Press force was ~150 lbs (~68kgs) for half-fit, and over 250 lbs (~113 kgs) for final fit.

.003" and a dry fit, leaks badly at 20 PSI leak test.View attachment 1038607View attachment 1038608View attachment 1038609

Now, 20 PSI is at least five times what this plug should ever see, but that's not good enough. This was a dry fit, no sealant.

I'm having another one made at .006" oversize.
I attempted to copy your leak test. In a bucket of water at 30psi on a tyre pump, no air leaks. I think the bead of sealant worked.
 

Attachments

  • 20240416_111546.jpg
    20240416_111546.jpg
    337.9 KB · Views: 5
Yes, Revolt's manifold, unlike QC Charge's, does not circulate coolant to the heat transfer section of the gear case. Opinions vary as to whether that gearcase heat transfer section is a critical part of the cooling design.

As I understand it (and that's not saying much) the U-revision units that Tesla is installing right now does not circulate any coolant around that area either. So I see two possibilities for that:

Tesla are not concerned about the temperature conditions there and the original design was overengineered for thermal management and underengineered on the potential for leaks....

Or Tesla now are unconcerned about thermal management for these units on mature vehicles and the potential of reduced performance when hot or reduced lifespan as they are unlikely to be operated at the extreme edge case levels of performance by most operators AND are likely to exceed the mileage / time of the warranty before a failure.

I suspect it is likelier option #2, that they just don't care as long as it outlasts the warranty.
 
As I understand it (and that's not saying much) the U-revision units that Tesla is installing right now does not circulate any coolant around that area either.
It sure looks as if the REV U units maintain that flow:

1714351316934.png


Here's where that top tube feeds:

1714351365828.png


Flow is from the top, to that hose barb on the bottom left. And, here's what's under that aluminum sheet cover (ignore the shoelaces and inverter):

1714351414734.png


IDK whether they're trying to remove gearbox heat into the coolant, or heating the gearbox with the coolant. But, with all those heat transfer fingers cast into the case, somebody thought there was going to be heat transfer.
 
Heat transfer in the gearbox, I can see that - and look at the amount of sealant there too on that cover. The water is in and around that casing, but not inside it. The shaft pokes through the lip seal and engages the gearing spline... But isn't wet.

What I see on the OTHER end of the drive unit though is the red cap on the coolant line of the end cover... And what appears to be a straight path in the casting rather than bending to enter the end of the motor housing. If THAT is where all the leaks are coming from (and again - I may very likely be completely wrong here as I haven't (yet) any practical hands-on experience).... But that's where the speed sensor is, and if we can find water on the speed sensor indicating a problem.... Either it is coming from that end connection that seems like it doesn't send coolant there... Or is it coming through the entire drive unit body - and WHY would that be the case?
 
Anyone has this measurement? mine is just under 228mm. Each ceramic bearings are 14mm width.

Asking because my 2 bevel washer spring on the outer bearing bore seems to get completely compressed (install motor end plate until bevel washer spring engaged. end plate to stator to housing gap is 2mm. 2 bevel washer uncompressed distance is 2mm) My 500 mile old outer ceramic bearing has a slight drag (even after repacking with high speed grease for this bearing), wonder if pushed into bevel washer too far or just coolant contamination (original grease didn't look bad)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1859.jpeg
    IMG_1859.jpeg
    613.1 KB · Views: 1
What I see on the OTHER end of the drive unit though is the red cap on the coolant line of the end cover... And what appears to be a straight path in the casting rather than bending to enter the end of the motor housing. If THAT is where all the leaks are coming from (and again - I may very likely be completely wrong here as I haven't (yet) any practical hands-on experience).... But that's where the speed sensor is, and if we can find water on the speed sensor indicating a problem.... Either it is coming from that end connection that seems like it doesn't send coolant there...
I get the sense that you haven't read this thread from the beginning.

The coolant leak path is well known: it's the PTFE seal, leaking into the dry side of the coolant manifold, into the reluctor wheel cavity, where the speed sensor is. Through the outer rotor bearing into the stator cavity, then through the HV tunnel to the inverter.

If you want to know more about the various leak and vent paths, Johan did a great YT vid with illustrations and diagrams: