Does using supercharger actually save money for a road trip compared to petrol?

[Futuretech]

ABRP tells me a trip from my home in Sydney to Canberra airport (260km) will use 80% of a M3 rwd 60kwh battery which is 48kwh consumed. @ $0.68 per kwh at the supercharger that's $32.64.

A petrol car of similar size will probably use 8L per 100km ie 20.8L for the same trip. At $1.7 per litre of petrol that's $35.36. Only less than $3 more expensive than the M3 and this is on the basis that cost of petrol is as expensive as of now, and before the EV road user charge.

Is my calculations correct? I was under the impression that electric car would be much cheaper to run compared to ICEs, fuel wise.

 

[MARKM3]

ABRP tells me a trip from my home in Sydney to Canberra airport (260km) will use 80% of a M3 rwd 60kwh battery which is 48kwh consumed. @ $0.68 per kwh at the supercharger that's $32.64.

A petrol car of similar size will probably use 8L per 100km ie 20.8L for the same trip. At $1.7 per litre of petrol that's $35.36. Only less than $3 more expensive than the M3 and this is on the basis that cost of petrol is as expensive as of now, and before the EV road user charge.

Is my calculations correct? I was under the impression that electric car would be much cheaper to run compared to ICEs, fuel wise.

Supercharger pricing is in line with petrol cars at the moment, even in the USA. If you do most of your charging at home, the rate should be 1/3 less than the supercharging rate or more. The idea behind supercharging is it's there if you need it for a road trip, but that should be a small percentage of your overall driving.

 

[moa999]

You've picked a poor route given Sydney to Canberra is mostly up hill.

Better to say a Tesla uses say 15kWh / 100km or so on average.

But you are correct that when paying premium supercharging, or any fast DC charging prices the difference is less.

However most will start a journey with a full much cheaper battery, and might be able to top-up free or more cheaply at the destination or en route.

 

[Hairyman]

I’m finding Supercharging on road trips is about half the cost of petrol compared to driving an ICE getting about 8l/100km. I’m driving an M3P.

I do almost all my charging at home where I’m saving 90+% compared to my last ICE which had lifetime fuel consumption of 9.3l/100km.

My old ICE had a 2.0 litre turbocharged Mercedes engine.

Attached is a screenshot of my last year’s driving and the Tesla estimates for average fuel in my state with a 7l/100km engine.

I’ve done a few long trips lately because domestic air travel is such a mess at the moment.

 

[dafish]

No.

 

[Chuq]

Irrelevant question because supercharger/fast charger usage is only about 5-10% of most people's total charging costs. The other 90-95% of charging (home charging) is closer to 20% the cost, and that's where the saving is.

 

[paulp]

I have free supercharging for life of the car so I’m sure thats cheaper than dinosaur juice.

 

[Phido]

ABRP tells me a trip from my home in Sydney to Canberra airport (260km) will use 80% of a M3 rwd 60kwh battery which is 48kwh consumed. @ $0.68 per kwh at the supercharger that's $32.64.

A petrol car of similar size will probably use 8L per 100km ie 20.8L for the same trip. At $1.7 per litre of petrol that's $35.36. Only less than $3 more expensive than the M3 and this is on the basis that cost of petrol is as expensive as of now, and before the EV road user charge.

Is my calculations correct? I was under the impression that electric car would be much cheaper to run compared to ICEs, fuel wise.

Most people will leave for a trip with a full charge from home, costing a mere dollar or so. Most people will return home without a full charge, and be able to charge at home for a mere dollar.

So for many trips EV's will be significantly cheaper.

Superchargers are priced so they are a similar price to petrol. LPG or diesel may even be cheaper than a EV using a supercharger. However, many other charging options exist other than superchargers. Many ~20-50kw DC chargers are half or less the price of a supercharger. If you aren't in a rush on the road to cover a long distance quickly, make use of these.

For most people they don't need a supercharger for many trips beyond the city. A Sydney to Melbourne trip, that makes sense, not to Canberra.

Just drive to Canberra, charge at the hotel your staying at, or at a slower DC charger while at the airport. A quick check seems to indicate Ikea near the airport has free DC fast charging. Or one at the shopping centre is also free. So effectively your drive to Canberra could cost just a few dollars in energy. The V2 supercharger costs $0.56 per kw according to plugshare, the V3 in the Tuggeranong shopping centre is I assume more expensive.

For most RWD cars, unless you need to quickly charge up from <40% a supercharger is basically a waste, you are paying a premium for mere seconds faster charging compared to a 50Kw charger that is probably a third the price. For a RWD car, there is no point is selecting a V3 supercharger over a V2 supercharger, the 125Kw of the V2 is faster than your car can handle most of the time, and even for a 5%-80% would only save you seconds.

I don't really understand why Tesla locates them in CBD's. Far more useful on the major highways. We really need more high capacity V3/V4 on the highways

 

[SageBrush]

A petrol car of similar size

If you also own a petrol car, you are paying through the nose for minimal utility. EV only ownership is a big money saver.

 

[Unclepaul]

Be sure to compare fuel costs to an equiliventy powerful ICE car.

Tesla is a high performance sporty car. Do not compare it with a much less powerful gasser.

 

[scully]

There is also an airport in Sydney, if that helps

 

[Futuretech]

There is also an airport in Sydney, if that helps

Haha, that was just an example that I picked out.

 

[SL666]

ABRP tells me a trip from my home in Sydney to Canberra airport (260km) will use 80% of a M3 rwd 60kwh battery which is 48kwh consumed. @ $0.68 per kwh at the supercharger that's $32.64.

A petrol car of similar size will probably use 8L per 100km ie 20.8L for the same trip. At $1.7 per litre of petrol that's $35.36. Only less than $3 more expensive than the M3 and this is on the basis that cost of petrol is as expensive as of now, and before the EV road user charge.

Is my calculations correct? I was under the impression that electric car would be much cheaper to run compared to ICEs, fuel wise.

So that's a trip i've done a few times recently (at least CBR-SYD-CBR) cruise control set at the speed limit. (ok 113)
CBR-SYD is a little cheaper - our hybrid camry will turn a flat 5.0 - my turbo falcon 8.0
SYD-CBR they are both ~10% worse - Camry 5.4 or 5.5 depending on wind/weather weight, falcon will be in the high 8's

Both running on 98 which is bang on $2/L in CBR at the moment.

so Camry is $10/100 or $11/100 for the uphill
Falcon $16 & $18 respectively.
or
Camry ($26+$28.6 = $54.60) round trip
Falcon ($41.60+$46.80 = $88.40) round trip


so based on your $32 it's about $12.55/100
or (estimating 10% better on the way home)
($32.64 + $30 = $62.64)

In reality you would charge to 100% at home on off-peak (ours is 19.99c/kwh) & then charge at the Majura supercharger which i think is .60?
so
($9.55 + $25 = $34.55)

so significantly cheaper - and as others have pointed out - if you are staying somewhere where you can charge - bonus.

ps around town the falcon will do more like 18L/100 - because reasons
my patrol (6.6L turbo diesel) does like 18L/100 around town 13-14 on the highway depending on what you are towing.
my hilux does about 1L/km @$2.50/L for e85 on a runway.

 

[Phido]

There is also an airport in Sydney, if that helps

This mildly annoys me because there is this idea that everyone flys everywhere, which is both wrong and silly. Also that EV's can't drive long distances, they can. I know its a joke but still....

In reality you would charge to 100% at home on off-peak (ours is 19.99c/kwh) & then charge at the Majura supercharger which i think is .60?
so
($9.55 + $25 = $34.55)

For many people its cheaper than that. I have PV array. The cost is the opportunity cost of not exporting to the grid at 7c a Kwh. So ~$5.6 to fill a LR/Performance or $4 for a RWD.

With a Long range, you can probably make the trip and have enough to drive around a bit, charge a free/cheap 20-50kw DC charger, then make it back home again. Which makes it very cheap... like $10 round trip.

A LPG falcon would be pretty cheap too.. Probably half the cost of the camry. Less emissions too...

I do think Superchargers are a bit steep in price. Particularly for V1/V2.. They aren't much faster charging than many other DC chargers, but you pay more than 2-3 times the cost. Places where you really need lots of V3/V4 chargers, they aren't there, or aren't their in numbers that you waste time waiting. Plus they are in the wrong places, like in city centres. They should be on the edges of cities on the highways.

 

[BreatheSafe]

We do syd-cbr-syd alot and the cost could probably be comparable to a fuel efficient ICE depending on the fuel price cycle. But as it is only about 30% of our usage the total cost savings far outweigh the SC cost.
You take a hit here and there but still way ahead.

 

[SL666]

A LPG falcon would be pretty cheap too.. Probably half the cost of the camry. Less emissions too...

@ 1.15c/L for lpg and would turn ~12L/100? maybe a bit less? (based on previous use of lpg falcons that turned about +30-50% on a petrol version) pretty doubtful... LPG was cheap when it was 50c/L - you just need to look at the taxis to see what the cheapest to run thing is.

 

[Phido]

@ 1.15c/L for lpg and would turn ~12L/100? maybe a bit less? (based on previous use of lpg falcons that turned about +30-50% on a petrol version) pretty doubtful... LPG was cheap when it was 50c/L - you just need to look at the taxis to see what the cheapest to run thing is.

They were ~12l per 100 combined for the LPI falcons, so 8-9 on the highway is completely believable. The old carby fed LPG were ~30-50% more with the old 4 speed.

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Taxis don't run them anymore because you can't buy them anymore. There are some LPG hybrid camrys. Which are even more efficent.

My point isn't to buy a LPG car, its that Tesla, an American company, doesn't really understand Australia, and LPG/Diesel and our pricing here or where superchargers need to be. They don't understand where they should be pricing themselves. That there are other very competitive networks like NRMA, Chargefox, EVie. They aren't the only game in town. That Superchargers are actually not particularly fast in Australia, so few V3, while tritiums 350kw chargers are everywhere in Australia. Tesla needs to look closer at Australia and what is happening here. The jam ups at Goulburn and elsewhere are good examples of that.

Applying Europes/US pricing to Australia is not a good idea. Also why not build Superchargers with shade.. Again, They aren't thinking about Australia's climate.

 

[MickyD]

Be sure to compare fuel costs to an equiliventy powerful ICE car.

Tesla is a high performance sporty car. Do not compare it with a much less powerful gasser.

My previous car was a 2021 BMW M135i X-Drive. Broadly comparable performance to an M3LR, and with freeway driving would regularly be below 6L/100km. Stop/Start commuting more like 9L/100km.

 

[SL666]

I think Tesla know exactly where their pricing is at -
*just* below equivalent petrol price - but not so much higher than for occasional use (eg - on trips) people aren't going to go seeking out the competition.
Why provide shade when you can use their aircon in your car, and they can make 100% profit on the electricity to do so - also easier to get planning past etc etc - next they will start putting up shades - with solar panels (to get through planning) and electronic advertising screens.

All my experience with LPG falcons (in recent history) has been with vapour injected models - theres no way one is getting into the 8's on the highway at over 100 & they have stopped converting hybrid camrys because the difference in cost doesn't get covered in the first 400k km.

 

[Hairyman]

It might be worth noting that in the Tesla app, the charging comparisons are based on the average unleaded fuel price in your (Australian) state and an ICE burning 7l/100km. So I think Tesla are likely to be aware of local fuel costs. What other factors are coming into their pricing choice we could speculate about. I think you are right to point out that the prices of the other ultra-rapid chargers is something that will put some pressure on their price, but only once they are sufficiently numerous and (very importantly) reliable.