EAP Class Action Settlement 7-26-18

[Joe F]

Mine says my car comes with EAP and FSD. It didn't and still doesn't. Stop with the straw man argument. While some might not be native English speakers that shouldn't open themselves up to nativist harassment.

Tesla was in the wrong and even they admitted it when they extended the meagre settlement terms to worldwide owners. Why are you fighting something even Tesla admits? Windmills aren't for tilting at, Sancho.

Mine says I purchased it too. It doesn’t say it’s available to be delivered with the car. The web site where we ordered the car states it’s not a finished product yet, lays out the cost paid in advance, and the cost if purchased post delivery.

While I agree the delay is beyond frustrating, there’s nothing anyone was “promised” WRT a timeline. That’s common narrative those who would love nothing more than to see Tesla fail use.

While I didn’t follow the court filings or know the terms of the settlement, I believe it was related to the delay in delivering all EAP features. Perhaps that’s not a correct belief on my part.

Sorry you feel I’ve harassed anyone, certainly wasn’t my intention, but those posting untruthful statements need to be challenged. Pointing to a tweet and stating something is says, which it clearly doesn’t, is either an attempt to deceive, or a lack of understanding, something a non native English speaker might be confused by. I went with the non accusatory option.

 

[KyleDay]

Um, Hello.....

Read the last sentence. That's a timeline that I bought my vehicle on and it was explicitly marketed to me. It's now 22 months later and "Enhanced" Autopilot literally doesn't exist at all, and, is demonstrably missing features that AP1.0 has. Exactly zero "E"AP features exist today.

Here's to hoping it arrives sometime. In the meantime, Tesla is now obligated to send $280 us. I feel bad for the owners where $280 is sent to an owner that leased their car on a 24 month lease, who purchased EAP and FSD, and got exactly zilch for it. Yippee.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Exactly zero "E"AP features exist today.

To be fair, AP1-exceeding turning radius/angle - i.e. Autosteer+ - on AP2 does now somewhat exist, starting sometime in 2018. This can IMO be viewed as the first "Enhanced" feature, at least partially so compared to the description:

Autopilot

It is true that AP1 car-type / traffic-sign recognition visiblity, as well as the rest of the Enhanced features are of course still missing.

When I ordered in Q4/2016 (replacing my X Signature order which was yet to be delivered), most of us of course expected the full EAP to ship around New Year 2017 based on Tesla's then-marketing, judging by the discussions on TMC. That was the picture Tesla painted. As you noted with the Design Studio screenshot from the time, the full EAP was supposed to come in December, 2016. Some delay was to be expected, but nobody expected it to be years (22 months and counting, now).

It was FSD that didn't get a timeline beyond the coast-to-coast drive - end of 2017, hasn't happened yet. Until January 2017, that is, when partial FSD (i.e. new non-EAP) features got the 3-6 months timeline - those didn't appear either and haven't, though. That timeline was exceeded 14 months ago.

 

[rnortman]

Can you show where any specific timelines are given for S/W development timelines in it?

The official option description for the EAP and FSD options (implictly part of the MVPA contract) said absolutely nothing about software development timelines. They said that validation and regulatory approval were required. Tesla released a video of a functioning system as part of their marketing materials, implying that R&D was at least largely complete. If additional R&D was necessary beyond getting a working alpha validated and production-ready, they should have said so, but they did not. I'm not qualified to say what this means legally but I am qualified to say that it was highly unethical -- and remains so since they continue doing it.

The ranks of Tesla apologists are shrinking on this forum, but I congratulate you for being such a loyal holdout to the cause. Please proceed to take part of this post out of context and build a strawman argument around it.

 

[Joe F]

View attachment 337028 Um, Hello.....

Read the last sentence. That's a timeline that I bought my vehicle on and it was explicitly marketed to me. It's now 22 months later and "Enhanced" Autopilot literally doesn't exist at all, and, is demonstrably missing features that AP1.0 has. Exactly zero "E"AP features exist today.

Here's to hoping it arrives sometime. In the meantime, Tesla is now obligated to send $280 us. I feel bad for the owners where $280 is sent to an owner that leased their car on a 24 month lease, who purchased EAP and FSD, and got exactly zilch for it. Yippee.

Yes, the last sentence reads the same as it did when I purchased mine, too.

Anyone who followed Tesla knows the full suite of features was not released for AP1 when first delivered. AP2 was no different. The EAP features started in late January ‘17 with I believe was with 17.3.2, So, right, lets ding Tesla because it started 3-4 weeks later than the December date.

It then progressed incrementally, honing and increasing both the capabilities of the features released, and introduced others, just as AP1 was introduced.

The differences between AP1 and AP2 have been beaten to death many times over. Do we really need to do this again? Not trying to avoid going there, but aside from reading speed limit signs, which is not perfect in AP1, AP2 is, according to those who have or had both, finally more competent than AP1.

The meaning of “enhanced” has also been beaten to death. Displaying a vehicle on the IC differently is that big of a deal? Lane change on a non divided highway, when AP2 states it’s intended for divided highways

“Enhanced” AP also refers to the increased hardware, so stating, falsely, “Enhanced” AP doesn’t exist at all is incorrect, too.

I don’t feel bad for anyone who leased and paid for FSD given it was clearly stated the timeframe was unknown. No reasonable person should have purchased that option on a lease, and I doubt anyone was foolish to have done so.

 

[Joe F]

It was FSD that didn't get a timeline beyond the coast-to-coast drive - end of 2017, hasn't happened yet. Until January 2017, that is, when partial FSD (i.e. new non-EAP) features got the 3-6 months timeline - those didn't appear either and haven't, though. That timeline was exceeded 14 months ago.

Agreed, the 3 month 6 month tweet was unfortunately classic Elon. Not sure but feel the direction change in S/W was a major setback for introducing any FSD features. That, and the realization the hardware wouldn’t be up to the task.

 

[Cheburashka]

Yes, the last sentence reads the same as it did when I purchased mine, too.

Anyone who followed Tesla knows the full suite of features was not released for AP1 when first delivered. AP2 was no different. The EAP features started in late January ‘17 with I believe was with 17.3.2, So, right, lets ding Tesla because it started 3-4 weeks later than the December date.

It then progressed incrementally, honing and increasing both the capabilities of the features released, and introduced others, just as AP1 was introduced.

The differences between AP1 and AP2 have been beaten to death many times over. Do we really need to do this again? Not trying to avoid going there, but aside from reading speed limit signs, which is not perfect in AP1, AP2 is, according to those who have or had both, finally more competent than AP1.

The meaning of “enhanced” has also been beaten to death. Displaying a vehicle on the IC differently is that big of a deal? Lane change on a non divided highway, when AP2 states it’s intended for divided highways

“Enhanced” AP also refers to the increased hardware, so stating, falsely, “Enhanced” AP doesn’t exist at all is incorrect, too.

I don’t feel bad for anyone who leased and paid for FSD given it was clearly stated the timeframe was unknown. No reasonable person should have purchased that option on a lease, and I doubt anyone was foolish to have done so.

What are you talking about?

Read the text that was posted by Tesla.

There are no words about "beta", incremental updates, etc. It clearly says features like auto lane change and interchange navigation are coming in December 2016, and thay is why it is "enhanced".

It has been almost 2 years.. if they aren't sure that those features will be available, they should stop BSing the customers about it.

 

[rnortman]

Anyone who followed Tesla knows the full suite of features was not released for AP1 when first delivered. AP2 was no different.

It should not be required to "follow" a company in order to buy their product. I do not "follow" most of the companies I do business with. I assume that their product descriptions, while one-sided and usually somewhat exaggerated, are factually correct when I purchase the products.

Agreed, the 3 month 6 month tweet was unfortunately classic Elon. Not sure but feel the direction change in S/W was a major setback for introducing any FSD features. That, and the realization the hardware wouldn’t be up to the task.

1. The "direction change" in S/W is a great illustration of why you should never sell and accept payment for a product you have not yet developed. Development is too uncertain. You want to take on investment capital to develop a product? Go ahead -- kickstarter, VC funds, and the stock market are all there to help. You don't do it by selling a product that doesn't exist.

2. Plenty of people were saying at the time that the hardware wasn't up to the task. Elon, in all his Iron-Man-wannabe glory, didn't want to hear it, and neither did the fanboys. I say the hardware still isn't up to the task; their sensor suite is never going to be good enough for more than toy self-driving. (i.e., self driving that is actually just glorified driver assistance).

 

[croman]

We're all tired of being pissed on and told that is just rain in Teslaland. You can keep your Trumpian Showers.

 

[Joe F]

Pity you all don’t enjoy your Tesla, the same car thousands of others praise and rate the best car they’ve ever owned. And that’s not to mention the tens of thousands who are currently purchasing the newest Tesla Model 3.

Some people just want to tear down the first American car company that’s producing innovative cars people are willing to spend 2 to 3X more for than they’ve ever paid for a car.

Good luck with being miserable.

 

[croman]

I love my car, I hate bring misled and lied to. I can love a company's product while holding them accountable for misdeeds.

You can keep your pee.

 

[Joe F]

I love my car, I hate bring misled and lied to. I can love a company's product while holding them accountable for misdeeds.

You can keep your pee.

Fair enough, and easily understood. Except for the obsession with urine. Kind of uncalled for.

 

[Joe F]

1. The "direction change" in S/W is a great illustration of why you should never sell and accept payment for a product you have not yet developed. Development is too uncertain. You want to take on investment capital to develop a product? Go ahead -- kickstarter, VC funds, and the stock market are all there to help. You don't do it by selling a product that doesn't exist.

Right, so wait until regulations are set in stone, potentially years down the road, and not produce a series of vehicles that are now so far in the lead in numbers produced, and by the tens of thousands weekly, not to mention sold, while others rest of their ICE butts waiting for the future to leave them in the dust. And they’re only getting better, and upgradable to their latest AP3 H/W, so there’s that.

Tesla’s competition for a personal EV is woefully inadequate out of the gate so far.

 

[Joe F]

What are you talking about?

Read the text that was posted by Tesla.

There are no words about "beta", incremental updates, etc. It clearly says features like auto lane change and interchange navigation are coming in December 2016, and thay is why it is "enhanced".

It has been almost 2 years.. if they aren't sure that those features will be available, they should stop BSing the customers about it.

I’ve posted the reasons they’re delayed, and won’t waste my time addressing it further. Feel free to read it.

Curious, what model Tesla you own? What firmware are you running? What about your Tesla makes you so bitter?

 

[Cheburashka]

Who said anything about being bitter?

Tesla should he held accountable for misleading customers, that's all I'm trying to say.

 

[rnortman]

Pity you all don’t enjoy your Tesla, the same car thousands of others praise and rate the best car they’ve ever owned. And that’s not to mention the tens of thousands who are currently purchasing the newest Tesla Model 3.

Some people just want to tear down the first American car company that’s producing innovative cars people are willing to spend 2 to 3X more for than they’ve ever paid for a car.

We're picking up our Model 3 this weekend, trading in our last ICE car. My Model S is the best car I've ever owned. That is completely beside the point. Tesla sold a product that did not exist and (I suspect) will never be delivered in a form anything like what the people who bought it were expecting. This isn't about tearing Tesla down; this is about holding Tesla to account when they screw up.

Right, so wait until regulations are set in stone, potentially years down the road, and not produce a series of vehicles that are now so far in the lead in numbers produced, and by the tens of thousands weekly, not to mention sold, while others rest of their ICE butts waiting for the future to leave them in the dust. And they’re only getting better, and upgradable to their latest AP3 H/W, so there’s that.

Tesla’s competition for a personal EV is woefully inadequate out of the gate so far.

You're changing the subject. This isn't about whether Teslas are good cars, or whether they're better than the competition, or whether Tesla should have included Autopilot hardware on new cars to prepare for future delivery of EAP and FSD. This is about whether they should have sold EAP and FSD under false pretenses (which as my previous post states, was the combination of the 2016 demo video, option descriptions that talked about validation and regulatory approval but not R&D, and some very specific timelines that they put in writing and then completely missed).

They could have started putting in the hardware and even taking "pre-orders" for EAP and FSD while being very upfront about the state of development. But they misled us with the BS demo and marketing language, and they took orders, not pre-orders, and they accepted payment in full right up front. That was among the most idiotic things Tesla has done and I am shocked that the legal consequences have so far been so mild for them. The class action settlement that this thread is about is a joke.

As for the competition, they're catching up quickly. I sort of doubt our next car will be a Tesla. (I say this because we're not going to be due for a new car for 4-5 years at least, and there's also a very good chance that these will be the last cars we ever own if real autonomous vehicles are available and the Carpocalypse happens by then, which frankly is what I'm rooting for. But even if it doesn't, I bet at least one other automaker will be highly competitive with Tesla in 4-5 years.)

 

[whitex]

As you noted with the Design Studio screenshot from the time, the full EAP was supposed to come in December, 2016. Some delay was to be expected, but nobody expected it to be years (22 months and counting, now).

"Nobody" is a bit of a stretch. Those of us who bought into Tesla's previous marketing (691hp P85D - passing speed upgrade coming over the air soon! - delivered 463hp and an excuse that the car is capable, but no the drive train) and Elon's promises (AP1 will find you anywhere on private property - delivered drive up to 40ft in a straight line while you hold a dead-man-switch making sure the car doesn't hit anything) tried to warn the rest of the community, but only to get flamed by fanboys. I bought a brand new Model S delivered in December 2016, didn't pay for EAP or FSD because I knew is was a total Elon marketing BS. I saved $8,000 vs. get $280 back 2 years later. My only hopes out of AP2 was that they will make auto-wipers work at least as well as they older cars (they did, mostly, a year later) and better blind spot monitoring than AP1 (still waiting).

So, for the record so you can pull this out in the future, FSD in AP2 will NEVER do what Tesla marketing implies (ride-sharing where your car drives your family around, goes drop you off at work, picks up your kids from school, etc or joins Tesla's ride sharing network where it drives strangers around and pays you money), or what Elon tweeted (summon the car across the country). Yea, I'm sure, just like with 691hp, they'll tell you the car is capable except for some vital piece they can't retrofit for free (or at all).

 

[whitex]

The official option description for the EAP and FSD options (implictly part of the MVPA contract) said absolutely nothing about software development timelines. They said that validation and regulatory approval were required. Tesla released a video of a functioning system as part of their marketing materials, implying that R&D was at least largely complete.

THIS is the biggest problem here. Imagine a company showed customer a video of a water-to-gold making machine "converting water to energy and back to gold" (think "Star Trek replicator"). Then the company sold those for $10K a pop, saying "we just need to get approval to sell them" and give you Tesla like marketing statements like "we'll limit you to 100kg of gold per year, if you want to make more you can, but have to join our gold-manufacturer program". Then you find out they faked the video with special effects and the gold bar that fell out of the machine in the video was inserted there off camera. Oh, then you realize that the machine you bought, will never make any gold.

 

[croman]

Fair enough, and easily understood. Except for the obsession with urine. Kind of uncalled for.

You are right about the last part. Just a metaphor I got carried away with.

 

[D.E.]

I like my Tesla.
I like my EAP.
I did not ask to sue Tesla.
I do not appreciate being included in this suit.

I've been in other class action suits. I had some stock that took a huge loss. I got a check for $0.20 a share, a downright laughable amount. The lawyers, though, they didn't even have the stock, they got millions.

So we each spend $5000 for EAP. These people assume I am as unhappy as they are. Then they think it is worthwhile to settle for $250 each. Do they know $250 is only 5% of $5000? The sales tax on that $5000 was more than that.

These people that sued did me no favors. They did extract money from the car company that I have a great deal of interest in seeing succeed, and they turned a great deal of that money over to lawyers.

Whoever did this doesn't seem very bright.