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EAP HW2 - my experience thus far... [DJ Harry]

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This is crazy, my other car has Adaptative Cruise Control and it automatically slows down when I there is dramatically slow traffic in front of me. I don't need to manually take control. I have an AP2 MS and never tried the TACC on an MS with AP1, so I thought all cars with ACC would behave like my XC90.
 
Sigh. Would you guys please go read the other threads where this is discussed ad nauseam? This challenge isn't unique to Tesla.

When using radar, it is very difficult to distinguish the difference between a stationary car in front of you at a distance and a fixed object that may be on the side or above/below the road. Imagine the road turns right up ahead, and on the left side is a fixed object. To the car, before it understands the road turns, that object could be a stopped car or something on the side of the road. Obviously we don't want the car needlessly slowing down or stopping for something on the side of the road, so AP tries to use the camera for more context. But the radar works further than the camera.

The way Tesla AP normally determines the object ahead is in fact a car is to track it while it's moving. We know the speed at which we're traveling. If the closing distance rate exactly matches our speed, it's possibly a fixed object. But if the closing distance rate is ANYTHING else, it's a moving object, and AP will tag it as such. Now if it stops, we still understand that it's a car, and we should slow down.

The net result is if a car in front of you is moving, even just a little - 1mph will do - when it comes into range of your radar, you're good. If the car in front of you is already stationary when it comes into range, AP must use other sensor data for context, and it may make a decision late or a poor one.

This works just fine for highway traffic as well as stop and go traffic during rush hour. Where you get into trouble is more rural areas with hills and turns and infrequent stops where it is more likely for you to come around a corner/hill at speed to stopped cars at a light.
 
I'll tack on my data point to the .185 update:

S60, AP2
Delivered on 12/20
Updated to .185 on 1/3
Cameras calibrated after about 20 miles split between highway and surface streets during day-time good weather, well-marked lanes. Enabled after parking overnight and restarting the next morning.

TACC works as expected. No surprises there.

Purposely drove into stop-and-go traffic this morning and auto-steer handled itself pretty well. Did experience a little bit of 'truck lust' which is well-documented here - a little too close for comfort so took manual control.

Not sure if this is known, but when I first enabled auto-steer it did veer quite dramatically within the lane for the first mile or so - not sure if it was still calibrating. After that it was pretty smooth. Always had well-marked lanes.

All in all, my expectations were met and I like where we're headed with the new hardware/software.
 
So if the full AP1 functionality was available on EAP, then in the scenario i descried the car should have stopped because of AEB? just trying to understand the expected behavior with all features so am better prepeared.

from another thread
"

Current confirmed working list on AP 2.0

1. Turn headlights on and off auto (they do NOT auto dim though)
2. Side collision warnings are present
3. Speed Assist (Cruise control)
4. Parking assist
5. Traffic-aware cruise control (Beta
6. Forward collision warning
7. Low-Speed Autosteer (Beta)

Current confirmed non-working list on AP 2.0

1. Auto windshield wipers
2. Auto high beam dimming of the headlights
3. Blind spot detection
4. Auto emergency braking
5. Side collision avoidance
6. Lane departure warning
7. Auto lane change
8. Autopark
9. Summon

"



In the current revision TACC is only designed to track MOVING cars. If there is standstill traffic in front of you then you'll have to brake manually.

Imagine you're driving a device that can only see things that move. If it hasn't seen it move it's 100% blind to it.
 
Much of that is the fully self driving capability and Tesla has already said that won't be available for another year at the earliest

Didn't realize that. Seems like a lot to pay for not having the functionality for a year. Feels like there's a good chance it won't happen with current AP 2.0 hardware given all the promises they made with AP1 hardware that never came to be.
 
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So if the full AP1 functionality was available on EAP, then in the scenario i descried the car should have stopped because of AEB?
On AP1 cars, AEB does NOT bring the car to a stop, it only reduces the impact of an already unavoidable collision, and once it has lowered the speed of the car by 25mph it disengages, or if it drops below a certain speed. (this is as described in the manual, but contrary to the advertising before purchase)
AP will bring the car to a stop *IF* TACC is engaged *AND* it recognizes the car in front as being a car, not just another obstacle.
 
On AP1 cars, AEB does NOT bring the car to a stop, it only reduces the impact of an already unavoidable collision, and once it has lowered the speed of the car by 25mph it disengages, or if it drops below a certain speed. (this is as described in the manual, but contrary to the advertising before purchase)
AP will bring the car to a stop *IF* TACC is engaged *AND* it recognizes the car in front as being a car, not just another obstacle.
On the plus side, unlike most other manufacturers, Tesla could still improve that for the existing fleet if they found a reliable way to do so.
I believe the logic is to cover the human reaction time windows of a couple of seconds, scrub the speed off while the human takes over - either applying the brake because they see it is still needed, or not.
 
On the plus side, unlike most other manufacturers, Tesla could still improve that for the existing fleet if they found a reliable way to do so.
I believe the logic is to cover the human reaction time windows of a couple of seconds, scrub the speed off while the human takes over - either applying the brake because they see it is still needed, or not.
And on the minus side, all the other manufacturers managed to get AEB right the first time and not need to "improve" it later. I believe the other manufacturers used a different logic: avoiding a collision is better than having one.
 
In the current revision TACC is only designed to track MOVING cars. If there is standstill traffic in front of you then you'll have to brake manually.

Imagine you're driving a device that can only see things that move. If it hasn't seen it move it's 100% blind to it.

Not true. TACC works perfectly in stop and go traffic for me and the car in front is tracked even when it's completely stopped. I think you mean that the car must be moving to start tracking. However that is not required for emergency braking to engage even with TACC completely off.
 
This is crazy, my other car has Adaptative Cruise Control and it automatically slows down when I there is dramatically slow traffic in front of me. I don't need to manually take control. I have an AP2 MS and never tried the TACC on an MS with AP1, so I thought all cars with ACC would behave like my XC90.
I've not had issues with this - any movement, even slight is enough to detect and lock. That said this is a Driver Aid - if you're paying attention then many of these issues are really not issues.

The only one I do really agree with is the auto-acceleration when the currently locked vehicle goes away. Even in my S60 the rate of acceleration exceeds what I would do myself - I'd like to make that less aggressive. And it has definitely caught out other vehicles who have not expected me to race into the gap created by the other car changing lanes.

This also happens when you move into a turning lane from slower traffic, suddnly TACC decides it can get back up to 45 in the empty turning lane - as it hurtles towards the red filter light. Drive preferenced accel would be nice. That said, I often find it too slow in stop go, so have to winch down the distance.
 
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not yet. Id be happy when it auto stops at red lights and stop signs! Thats still a few months away.

Me too... oh wait, that was promised as part of AP1 and we never got it. Color me bitter, but this is the one thing that I'm pissed off at Tesa/Elon for: making promises with then-current AP1 hardware, never delivering, and then pretending these things were not said.
 
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