Is it even feasible economically to give people lifetime warranties? It sounds awesome but honestly, I want to make sure Tesla keeps making money. I also don't think its fair to make a company offer this when nobody else is. It just sounds like they would be punishing themselves simply because they sell EVs.
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Elon's demand "secret weapon" ...what is it?
- Thread starter LargeHamCollider
- Start date
Is it even feasible economically to give people lifetime warranties? It sounds awesome but honestly, I want to make sure Tesla keeps making money. I also don't think its fair to make a company offer this when nobody else is. It just sounds like they would be punishing themselves simply because they sell EVs.
anthony
Member
I like to think of myself as a big picture thinker, and I have a hunch which makes sense in my mind. Please, poke holes.
Its not just about TM and what they do with batteries. Its about Elon's Energy Company, which doesn't really exist, but in my mind does.
We have no use for a battery that only holds 75% SOC, but our homes do, and so do other peoples homes. Those batteries are not at their end of life by far, but are much less useful to us.
Now consider the battery swap stations, and how easy it would be for me to swap my 75% SOC with your 100% SOC for $80 or whatever price.
We bought our cars for large sums of money, some was for the car, some was for the superchargers, some was for the stock holders, and paying back uncle sam.
I don't think its going to be a lease, I think the ownership of the battery will never really be yours, or mine, or theirs. You pay the price for the car, which covers the battery for its life. When it gets old, you get a new one. The car around it will also degrade over time and eventually you will buy another one, but if you expect to get any value out of this one, you better hope your buyer knows nothing about battery degradation.
To conclude, Elon owns your battery, and if you want a shiny new one just ask, and he will take your old battery back, and use/sell it to someone else, recycle its parts, build a new one, sell that one to someone else.
He sells more cars, sells more PV arrays with battery backups, demand for both skyrocket, go to mars, rinse repeat?
Its not just about TM and what they do with batteries. Its about Elon's Energy Company, which doesn't really exist, but in my mind does.
We have no use for a battery that only holds 75% SOC, but our homes do, and so do other peoples homes. Those batteries are not at their end of life by far, but are much less useful to us.
Now consider the battery swap stations, and how easy it would be for me to swap my 75% SOC with your 100% SOC for $80 or whatever price.
We bought our cars for large sums of money, some was for the car, some was for the superchargers, some was for the stock holders, and paying back uncle sam.
I don't think its going to be a lease, I think the ownership of the battery will never really be yours, or mine, or theirs. You pay the price for the car, which covers the battery for its life. When it gets old, you get a new one. The car around it will also degrade over time and eventually you will buy another one, but if you expect to get any value out of this one, you better hope your buyer knows nothing about battery degradation.
To conclude, Elon owns your battery, and if you want a shiny new one just ask, and he will take your old battery back, and use/sell it to someone else, recycle its parts, build a new one, sell that one to someone else.
He sells more cars, sells more PV arrays with battery backups, demand for both skyrocket, go to mars, rinse repeat?
arondaniel
Il Sessanta Caricato
I like the free service forever idea but I'm not sure the service plans are really holding anyone back from buying.
I would think a bigger concern is "how long does the battery last and how much to replace it"? Except that is not really an unknown to Tesla. I believe it lasts a lot longer than most people think. Or at least a lot longer than a few of the "Apelike Hangs" on one popular investment website seem to think.
I like the simplicity of Anthony's idea, but my original one was Tesla would charge you battery "miles" just like cellphone "minutes", except with the added bonus that miles + electricity is pegged to be less than the gasoline paid for vehicle X.
But then IIRC someone else pointed out awhile ago that Renault or someone has a similar battery lease thing and it hasn't exactly taken off.
Wait... was the secret weapon to spike demand or to decimate dealers? Haven't had time to listen to the call yet.
Krugerrand
Meow
I did not have a pleasant experience at the MB dealer. This wouldn't convince me (a current fence sitter).
Once they use a dealer, they will be forced to use dealers in every state. It's 100% for sure that using any kind of third party to sell the cars isn't going to happen for a long, long time.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I think everything mentioned so far is thinking too small and benign. This is Elon Musk we are talking about. His secret weapon against dealers is clearly an orbiting laser/mind control beam. It destroys dealerships that cause trouble and makes people want to buy Teslas...
OK, going back to the quote, the secret weapon is separate to a weapon against the dealerships.
Weapon against the dealerships is where getting used car sales licenses, or getting into rental would allow easier access for customers.
Secret weapon for demand, I hope will be doing something about multi-unit dwellings, which is obviously an issue in some markets. Tesla has a patent for a L2 charging unit that can serve about 4 vehicles (I think), with the ability to apportion charge. Imagine a system that's:
- Multi-headed: 4 cables for each charger, install 1 for every group of parking spots you want to enable.
- Smart: allow settings for maximum total charge and apportionment.
- Uses local authentication: no Internet account management, just do it with swipe cards, NFC, RFID or something like that. Small number of users, Have something in the charger itself to allow an admin to enable a "key".
- Not-quite-metering: you only need 1 utility meter for parking if the charger itself can measure time of use and amount of electricity used by each "account". Cost(user) = Cost(all) x Usage(user)/Usage(all)
- Enable-a-cable: provide the unit at low cost and charge a fee to enable each cable.
The problem needs to be addressed, and Tesla wants to sell lots of cars, so why not work to help solve the problem and get Tesla branding everywhere?
Weapon against the dealerships is where getting used car sales licenses, or getting into rental would allow easier access for customers.
Secret weapon for demand, I hope will be doing something about multi-unit dwellings, which is obviously an issue in some markets. Tesla has a patent for a L2 charging unit that can serve about 4 vehicles (I think), with the ability to apportion charge. Imagine a system that's:
- Multi-headed: 4 cables for each charger, install 1 for every group of parking spots you want to enable.
- Smart: allow settings for maximum total charge and apportionment.
- Uses local authentication: no Internet account management, just do it with swipe cards, NFC, RFID or something like that. Small number of users, Have something in the charger itself to allow an admin to enable a "key".
- Not-quite-metering: you only need 1 utility meter for parking if the charger itself can measure time of use and amount of electricity used by each "account". Cost(user) = Cost(all) x Usage(user)/Usage(all)
- Enable-a-cable: provide the unit at low cost and charge a fee to enable each cable.
The problem needs to be addressed, and Tesla wants to sell lots of cars, so why not work to help solve the problem and get Tesla branding everywhere?
Rebel44
Member
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I think in the states that don't allow manufacturers to operate dealerships, they need to set up a coop structure where the dealership is owned by the customers, along with a service center, that is set up so that it is economically neutral to tesla, yet meets the letter of the law. Think REI. How that profit gets transferred could be based on several factors.
They need to get creative here.
They need to get creative here.
Fyi someone in another thread claims to have some inside knowledge that there is a new P85D+ model with two rear sized motors (aka the front motor is same size and power as rear motor) totaling 940HP and supposedly this is the "secret weapon". I doubt it, but thought I'd dump it as a note in this thread since it's relevant.
The thing is the battery isn't even putting out 691 HP (515 watts) today. I don't know if that will come on future software updates which will also unlock the 155 mph top speed or if it will be a future battery. I would have to imagine the challenges of getting 700 watts out of the current battery would take a lot longer than "later this year."
jhm
Well-Known Member
Wow this is a really impressive idea. Congratulations on your first post!
Telsa Buyers Club, one might call it. Sales people work for the buyers, and positive word of mouth is rewarded, but not with cheesy referal cash. Service is not a profit center, it's a benefit of shared ownership.
anthony
Member
I guess I'm missing the part where the ability/barrier to purchase is holding up demand.
Is the bad publicity not still publicity?
Supply and demand have rules, making something more available is not a secret weapon.
I also only expect huge things from Elon that transforms the way we think about [insert word].
If I could get more for my used 2013 I would be more likely to upgrade to an autopilot capable 2015 or a MX. There have to be others in my same situation, are there not?
If the most expensive and integral part were in essence unlimited mile unlimited year warranty would that not change the conversation about pev vs ice vs hydrogen?
Is the bad publicity not still publicity?
Supply and demand have rules, making something more available is not a secret weapon.
I also only expect huge things from Elon that transforms the way we think about [insert word].
If I could get more for my used 2013 I would be more likely to upgrade to an autopilot capable 2015 or a MX. There have to be others in my same situation, are there not?
If the most expensive and integral part were in essence unlimited mile unlimited year warranty would that not change the conversation about pev vs ice vs hydrogen?
Elon's secret weapon is...this thread! All he has to do is pretend to have a secret weapon. Then come back a few weeks from now and reap what he has sown. Someone will have come up with a cool idea, and other's will have refined it, and all Tesla need do is harvest it when it's ripe!
Wow this is genius. I've heard of REI's model but never put it and Tesla together. Brilliant post.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I will ROFL if this actually happens to be the case, and Tesla deploys the REI idea from bayrower's post.
Thank you for the kind comments on the coop idea.
I haven't read the actual language of the franchise laws but am fairly certain it works.
And it economically can be absolutely neutral to both tesla and the buyer.
I actually sent this idea to them a few weeks ago when Michigan bothered me.
If if it helps, I ran Corp Dev and Strategy at one of the top 3 largest tech companies.
I haven't read the actual language of the franchise laws but am fairly certain it works.
And it economically can be absolutely neutral to both tesla and the buyer.
I actually sent this idea to them a few weeks ago when Michigan bothered me.
If if it helps, I ran Corp Dev and Strategy at one of the top 3 largest tech companies.
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