Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

[HankLloydRight]

Part off my buying decision was the promise of an SDK so you could conceivably build your own apps and change the way information is formatted/organized. I have no interest in mucking around with driving dynamics, just let me build a media app that doesn't suck and organize info the way that is most useful to me.

Agreed! While I know building an SDK or development sandbox for apps is not easy and not a priority over things like Ludicrous mode ...

...if Tesla were to deliver such an SDK or API to build real "apps" for the car, I would drop most everything I'm doing now and devote about 80% of my time to developing apps for the car.

 

[trils0n]

I don't think it is as simple as flat design vs skeuomorphic design. They are radically changing what information is displayed. They could keep the current UI layout, and make the graphics flat. That would be fine, look more "modern" and have basically no controversy. But instead they are removing critical information, and taking up large portions of the UI with useless graphics.

Flat design has merits, especially on small screens like phones. Small screens it is often hard to see the details, and flat design can help make things sharp, clear and easy to read. This is a good thing -- and has applications in auto UI where quick glances should be able to gleam information accurately -- sharp, clean, easy to read info is essential for automotive information displays. (The current speedo is an exceptional example of concise, at-a-glance info display). The problem with the 7.0 UI leaks is that it seems the flat design isn't being used for that purpose! It is seemingly being used for aesthetic purposes, not functional ones. Flat design is supposed to increase usability, but these leaks seem to show the opposite.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Preach it, brother!

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[supratachophobia]

Agreed! While I know building an SDK or development sandbox for apps is not easy and not a priority over things like Ludicrous mode ...

...if Tesla were to deliver such an SDK or API to build real "apps" for the car, I would drop most everything I'm doing now and devote about 80% of my time to developing apps for the car.

We should strongly consider a TMC app development team when SDK comes to 3rd parties. Crowdfund the licensing costs, and immediately start on Waze plugin and new media app.

 

[HankLloydRight]

The app I would write first would be "Infinite Trip Odometers"

And then something to integrate/replace my Supercharger Trip Logging web app (see sig).

 

[GregTexas]

There was an owner who bumped into a Tesla tech out there on the west coast at a supercharger a few months ago and the car the tesla tech was testing had 7.0 and let the owner look at it and explained the hand holding requirement. The tech said he didn't like it either but tesla is forcing it upon people for liability reasons they want to make sure people are still paying attention since this is autopilot and not fully autonomous.

I created a thread "Elon please veto your lawyers!" with my thoughts on this. Here it is for this thread:

I have test driven almost all the cars out that do lane keeping. I'm very familiar with the good and bad. I would never buy a car with the nag feature.
Infiniti and Audi do not nag. Volvo doesn't nag but their lane keeping was terrible.

I drove an Infiniti Q50 form Texas to California and the lane keeping made the trip much more enjoyable. The Q50 was great on straightaways but usually needed some help on the curves.

According to the 7.0 Beta Discussion thread the autosteer part of autopilot forces the driver to periodically grab the steering wheel.
This nag accomplishes nothing other than making car less safe to drive. It makes you take your eyes off the road to first read the nag notice and then find your way to the steering wheel to then apply just enough torque to turn off the nag.
Apply too much torque and autosteer shuts off causing you to further be distracted from the road to turn on the autosteer again.
It is much better to focus on the road and look for situations that you know autosteer might have a problem with and be ready to take over. My hands are always close by.
Forcing me to periodically grab the steering wheel is akin to forcing me to apply the brakes periodically.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Apply too much torque and autosteer shuts off causing you to further be distracted from the road to turn on the autosteer again.

Wow... That's really that big of a distraction? What about changing the A/C settings? Or the media player? Or using the Nav? Or turning on the defrost or seat heaters? Or looking at and changing the energy graphs? Or changing any other settings on the touch-screen like suspension height or range mode or steering mode? Or now in V7, going to the touchscreen just to see the trip odometers no longer available on the dashboard?

Sorry, but you lost me with this red herring of a statement that a simple glance/tap at the touchscreen is that much of a distraction to driving. If you're that distracted by enabling one feature on the touchscreen, perhaps you shouldn't be driving.

Since as mentioned before, this is not Autonomous driving, it's Driver Assist driving. I wouldn't want anyone driving these cars with their hands off the wheel. But that's just me.

 

[FredLambert]

My understanding of it is that if the markings on the road are clear, the car will not "nag" you to get your hands on the steering wheel.

 

[GregTexas]

Wow... That's really that big of a distraction? What about changing the A/C settings? Or the media player? Or using the Nav? Or turning on the defrost or seat heaters? Or looking at and changing the energy graphs? Or changing any other settings on the touch-screen like suspension height or range mode or steering mode? Or now in V7, going to the touchscreen just to see the trip odometers no longer available on the dashboard?

Doing any of those actions makes driving the car less safe than not doing them just like reading a text while driving makes driving less safe. Why add a repeating distraction when it accomplishes nothing?

- - - Updated - - -

Since as mentioned before, this is not Autonomous driving, it's Driver Assist driving. I wouldn't want anyone driving these cars with their hands off the wheel. But that's just me.

If you had driven a few thousand miles using it you would realize the benefits. It takes out the monotony of constantly making slight steering wheel movements to keep the car in the center of the lane.
It makes doing all those other control tasks safer with less stress when you do take your eyes off the road momentarily.
Just as my foot is a few inches away from the brake petal, my hands are a few inches away from the steering wheel. I'm ready to spring into action if need be.

 

[green1]

Imagine cruise control that required your foot on the accelerator. Makes no sense. If my hands have to be on the wheel, I'm not sure what auto steer accomplishes.

 

[electrish]

It makes doing all those other control tasks safer with less stress when you do take your eyes off the road momentarily.

I wholeheartedly agree: hands on the steering wheel would entirely defeat the purpose!
This system was presented by Elon as being very similar to autopilot on planes: the pilot supervises the system and retains responsibility, but does not have to hold the yoke during the entire flight!

 

[Soolim]

Apply too much torque and autosteer shuts off causing you to further be distracted from the road to turn on the autosteer again.

I think keeping one hand on the steering wheel will avoid the nag. How hard is to just gently grab the wheel with one hand while keeping an eye on the road and environment? I believe the lane keeping is simply to reduce the human motor load while driving on freeway, which is achievable provided the lane detection is accurate.

 

[apacheguy]

Could still be on the 17", right? After all, currently the outside temperature is shown on both the console and the touchscreen. Seems a bit redundant if you ask me.

Hope so. But the shots we've seen of the 17" running the beta indicate this is not the case.

 

[JST]

Imagine cruise control that required your foot on the accelerator. Makes no sense. If my hands have to be on the wheel, I'm not sure what auto steer accomplishes.

The whole idea of auto steer baffles me, but so does cruise control.

I bought the car to drive it.

But I agree it doesn't make sense for "auto" steer to require your hands on the wheel. If the car needs you to maintain that level of vigilance, the software just isn't ready.

 

[Super_Popular]

The whole idea of auto steer baffles me, but so does cruise control.

ACC on the freeway is awesome.

 

[JST]

ACC on the freeway is awesome.

Bought the car to drive it.

Seriously, I just don't see the point.

 

[Stoneymonster]

This thread is a fractal.

 

[tezzla]

Bought the car to drive it.

Seriously, I just don't see the point.

Sometimes, you're not really driving:
~

 

[bonnie]

Sometimes, you're not really driving:
~

So so true. Sitting in stop and go (more stop than go) traffic is not driving. It's just painful.

 

[JST]

Sure. And I know I am being cantankerous and telling people to get off my lawn. But even in daily traffic I'd still rather drive the car. I mean, it was a big concession for me to give up the clutch pedal.

Edit: but back on topic--the more I think about those screen shots, the more angry, disappointed, and discouraged I get. We're living in a brave new world where someone can decide to completely overhaul the user interface on your 90+ thousand dollar car seemingly at random. It really sucks.