Firmware 8.1 - Autopilot HW2

[MTOman]

You assume a lot - some areas of the country it's expected etiquette for faster cars to be in the left lane. If the right lane is clogged with trucks and slower moving vehicles, I find I typically stay in the left UNLESS someone driving faster than I am comes up from behind. Then I move over to the right to let them pass.

And (shudder) there are some freeways in California (99 comes to mind) where because of right lane road wear and tear, trucks are instructed to drive in the left lane.

(And I drove approx 70 miles today on AP2 8.1 and received zero nags. I just rest at least one hand on the wheel.)

Fair enough I am totally basing this on my own, limited, personal experiences in a locale where it's commonplace to enter the interstate and immediately move to the center or left lanes, even when traveling way under the limit!

I'm curious how you're resting your hand on the wheel because I do the same but it still bugs me constantly to hold the wheel. When it does I have to yank it pretty good to get it to register I'm there, almost to the point AP disengages. I will bring this up to my SC sometime if it doesn't improve but since my X is so new I want to enjoy it a little more before it goes back to the shop for more maintenance

Yes! I said that!
And YES, I know the etiquette! And NO, you wouldn't need to slow down if you were faster behind me!
I use the left lane if I have to pass another car, and I used the middle lane if I have to pass someone on the right lane!
I have AP set to 80mph if the speed limit is 70mph!
But barely got to that speed because of cars in front of me!
I'm one of those how hate slow drivers on the left side...

You're one of the good ones!

I really think you're using AP wrongly and dangerously. If you're operating a vehicle you should not be busy doing anything else. By being "in a bad position" to take over driving immediately, you are putting your own and others' lives at risk.

AP is not there to enable texting, web browsing, or toe nail clipping.

You assume a lot I meant when AP is in the middle of a curve and if asks you to tug the wheel! That's NOT what your mind wants you to do when you're in the apex of a curve Of course I watch the road when I'm on AP!!! What, do you think I'm suicidal?!? This is, after all, the first release where they allow up to 80mph. When it's full FSD I may think differently

 

[Bet TSLA]

I meant when AP is in the middle of a curve and if asks you to tug the wheel!

It isn't asking you to tug on the wheel. It's asking you to keep your hands on the wheel. If it isn't detecting your hands on the wheel then something is wrong.

 

[MTOman]

It isn't asking you to tug on the wheel. It's asking you to keep your hands on the wheel. If it isn't detecting your hands on the wheel then something is wrong.

This is what I, and other posters in this thread, have attempted to point out - there are some of us that require significant tugs for AP2 to acknowledge we're there.

Most of you seem to get by simply by holding the wheel but not all of us. Some of us have to to tug the wheel pretty hard to let it know we're there.

It's helpful to post info like this in the forums so we can track if our problem affects others, please don't assume we're all inattentive jerks just because our car problems are different than yours I don't think we need all 50,000 AP2 owners to respond if theirs if working correctly but it's helpful to know if there are others experiencing the same problem as I am

 

[bonnie]

Fair enough I am totally basing this on my own, limited, personal experiences in a locale where it's commonplace to enter the interstate and immediately move to the center or left lanes, even when traveling way under the limit!

I understand the frustration. I grew up in a MN farm town. I've also spent a few years of my life driving in Puerto Rico. :Everyone drives 55 mph in all lanes. Of course there, the shoulders are considered valid lanes at times, too. Stoplights on surface streets are merely a suggestion (seriously, can't get ticketed), and cops drive around with their lights on because otherwise it's entrapment. (Starting to feel a bit nostalgic here ...)

'm curious how you're resting your hand on the wheel because I do the same but it still bugs me constantly to hold the wheel. When it does I have to yank it pretty good to get it to register I'm there, almost to the point AP disengages. I will bring this up to my SC sometime if it doesn't improve but since my X is so new I want to enjoy it a little more before it goes back to the shop for more maintenance

I usually am holding the wheel at the top or side, letting my arm hang a bit. Not steering in any way - it's likely just the weight of my arm that tells the system I'm still around. All very relaxed & I can see how AP will be a huge help on cross-country trips.

 

[bonnie]

just a side note, but props to @MTOman for not getting defensive in his replies. I've seen a lot of threads devolve rapidly when someone experiences pushback like he has - and he's just answering the questions. Throw the man a like or two!

 

[Tangible]

I think the different experiences people are reporting about keeping the nag messages away are more about variations among the drivers than the vehicles. Keeping AP2 happy is, to me, a lot like learning to drive a manual transmission vehicle: You can't really describe how to engage the clutch in the sweet spot between stalling and spinning, you just have to acquire the muscle memory by lots of trial and error.

I support Tesla's decision to insist on driver attention, but I continue to think they've chosen a poor methodology. That said, I'm hoping it will become less effortful as I gain experience with it.

 

[mblakele]

It isn't asking you to tug on the wheel. It's asking you to keep your hands on the wheel. If it isn't detecting your hands on the wheel then something is wrong.

A year ago when I first started using AP, I felt I had to tug the wheel. Simply keeping my hands on the wheel wasn't enough. At the time I didn't understand that AP uses a torque sensor, plus I was using a very light touch to avoid disengaging AP. Before long I figured out how to hold the wheel with enough of a grip to activate the torque sensor, but without much risk of disengagement. Sometimes I'll still accidentally disengage on a bumpy stretch of road, but that's no big deal. Mostly I keep my hands in one of two positions: close to 9 and 3, or resting around 5 and 7.

However I have no idea how much variation there might be from vehicle to vehicle. I'd think there'd be a spec torque for detection and another for disengagement. Some cars might be out of spec, which could make it difficult to find a sweet spot between detection and disengagement. If so, that should be fixable by the SC.

 

[_jal_]

I just hold the wheel at 5, palm up, and rest my arm on my leg. Just that little bit of torque is enough to keep the nag screen from happening. Besides, I read a post here somewhere where the poster was an airplane pilot or something and was likening AP to ... autopilot but in an airplane. The point was that you can react much faster to crazy AP behavior with your hand on the wheel than if you are waiting until you see the car is out of control.

Also, it seems that the less "confident" the car is about its lane position the less torque it takes to disengage AP. It definitely takes different amounts of torque to disengage in different situations.

 

[Tangible]

So, at the risk of heresy, I'm not sure that there's any point to AP with these constraints.

Given that I must be continuously looking at the road, with at least one hand continuously on the wheel, what is the car contributing to the experience? I've been driving for (too) many decades, and in most situations steering on highways involves no effort or even consciousness...the car just goes where the road goes.

Though I have only two front-mounted "cameras" I can see and form a complex mental picture of the cars around me. Often I can look at a nearby vehicle and sense that it's going to cut in front of me. I don't know what I'm actually reacting to, but something is going on at the subliminal level.

Understand that I'm not claiming any unusual skill. I would bet that every experienced driver on the forum has the same capabilities. As a consequence, when I turn on autosteer I'm about as relaxed as when I took my 15 year old out for his first driving lesson.

 

[Reciprocity]

So, at the risk of heresy, I'm not sure that there's any point to AP with these constraints.

Given that I must be continuously looking at the road, with at least one hand continuously on the wheel, what is the car contributing to the experience? I've been driving for (too) many decades, and in most situations steering on highways involves no effort or even consciousness...the car just goes where the road goes.

Though I have only two front-mounted "cameras" I can see and form a complex mental picture of the cars around me. Often I can look at a nearby vehicle and sense that it's going to cut in front of me. I don't know what I'm actually reacting to, but something is going on at the subliminal level.

Understand that I'm not claiming any unusual skill. I would bet that every experienced driver on the forum has the same capabilities. As a consequence, when I turn on autosteer I'm about as relaxed as when I took my 15 year old out for his first driving lesson.

To the added value is ore about safety. Lets say you had autosteer on and had some kind of medical emergency that made you lose consciences. The car would continue in the lane until you passed the warning stage then it would pull over and shut down. Its more about having a backup driver built into the car to see what we cant and to anticipate when we have not seen yet.

 

[Bet TSLA]

So, at the risk of heresy, I'm not sure that there's any point to AP with these constraints.

There isn't much point. If you aren't enjoying it you should turn it off.

For me, I think that a baby AI learning to drive is one of the most fascinating experiences I'm ever likely to be part of. I am very much looking forward to the next couple of years.

 

[Tangible]

@Bet TSLA That's a valid response, and I understand where you're coming from. My expectations, explicitly set by the company in writing when I bought the vehicle late last year, were very different. Essentially, you wanted to buy a journey and I wanted to buy a destination. You got what you wanted and I didn't - or haven't yet. Neither of us is wrong.

I think we're going to see a lot of this problem as the company moves into mass-market vehicles and an increasingly competitive environment for the S and X. To the early adopters, the things Elon says are just for fun and not to be taken too seriously - thus the "Elon Time" quips. Some of us just joining the owner community are looking for more transparency and on-time delivery of promised functionality.

 

[sheenn]

I have a month old S. When the 8.1 update first came out, I had similar experiences with AP at 65+, wavy lines, jerky. I had also been noticing that my alignment was slightly off and my car was pulling to the right and wondered if that was the reason why it was jerking to stay in the lane. Brought the car into service and they confirmed the alignment issues, realigned and re-calibrated (got the 17.14.23 update) and tested it again today and it is much, much more stable. Take from that what you will.

 

[bhzmark]

Mostly I keep my hands in one of two positions: close to 9 and 3, or resting around 5 and 7.

Indeed. It is so easy and effortless.

I'm not sure that there's any point to AP with these constraints

You haven't used it have you? On commutes and road trips and stop and go driving it makes driving a pleasure.

you aren't enjoying it you should turn it off.

Indeed.

 

[chillaban]

I have a month old S. When the 8.1 update first came out, I had similar experiences with AP at 65+, wavy lines, jerky. I had also been noticing that my alignment was slightly off and my car was pulling to the right and wondered if that was the reason why it was jerking to stay in the lane. Brought the car into service and they confirmed the alignment issues, realigned and re-calibrated (got the 17.14.23 update) and tested it again today and it is much, much more stable. Take from that what you will.

It's funny you should mention that. My test drive AP2 car was doing a lot better on the freeway than the 100D I just took delivery of. And it was indeed pulling a bit to the right as soon as AP was engaged. I also noticed that my alignment is a bit off — after a while of driving, the car appears to compensate and holds the wheel a bit to the left, but I guess AP2 isn't able to compensate as well.

At any rate, I just brought my car into service today to complain about the alignment issue, and hopefully I'll get the same result.



FWIW: I found that on each drive, if I allowed AP2 to veer right for a while on an open stretch of freeway, eventually it'd compensate and center itself again. It still felt a little wobbly but at least would not immediately dive for the right lane boundary. However, after each power cycle the car seems to forget and need to re-learn.

 

[sdorn]

I took my first longer road trip this weekend with AP working. I used autosteer for about 100 miles in each direction. I didn't have any issues with nag screens. They never showed up. I kept my hand at around 9 o'clock or 7 o'clock, rotating back and forth to avoid fatigue.

It was certainly cool, and I am such a technology lover that I want to use it as much as possible. However, it didn't make the drive any less stressful. I was constantly making small adjustments keeping the car away from cars in adjacent lanes that I thought were getting too close (often the other car's fault) or nudging the wheel to start turning when approaching a curve as autosteer tends to wait later than I would like to start a turn. Autosteer also has a tendency to make small adjustments throughout a curve rather than holding a steady line through the curve, and that results in a less comfortable ride for the passengers. I found that if you apply pressure to the wheel through the curve and fight the car wanting to make those small adjustments you can hold a more stable line without disengaging autosteer.

I only had to disengage autosteer completely and take over a half dozen times in 200 miles, and only about 2 or 3 of those were because the car didn't take a curve safely. The others were when I needed to change lanes in traffic too heavy for auto lane change to work. When there was plenty of room for a lane change, I thought the auto lane change function worked great.

It was also very clear that the system works way better on newly paved roads that aren't bumpy and have really good contrast between the lane markings and the asphalt. Older roads with faded lines were harder on the system.

Bottom line is that autosteer is really cool and fun to use, but didn't really make the drive less stressful because of the hyper-vigilance required. I probably could have relaxed a little more if I'd been in the car by myself, as then I wouldn't have been as worried about the passengers getting irritated when the system braked late or waited too long to turn in a curve.

I'll definitely keep using it as much as I can, and am looking forward to it getting better and having more confidence that it won't upset the passengers by driving less carefully than I do. I am also looking forward to autosteer getting bumped up to 90mph on interstates and full speed autosteer being supported on local highways. Here in Georgia where the speed limits are 70mph, other cars are generally driving 85mph to 90mph. With the speed maxed out on autosteer I was getting passed by most other cars on the road, which is inherently unsafe. I've also noticed that the speedometer on my car is off by 1mph at highway speeds, so 80mph is actually 79mph in my car according to GPS.

 

[Tangible]

You haven't used it have you? On commutes and road trips and stop and go driving it makes driving a pleasure.

Yes, of course I've used it. it's great that you find it a pleasure to use, but yours is not the only possible subjective experience. I find - as I thought I made clear - that while it's fun to play with it actually increases stress because it's so undependable.

WRT to the "If you're not enjoying it turn it off" suggestion: Thanks, but I would rather have the features I paid for, working as described.

 

[J1mbo]

I took my first longer road trip this weekend with AP working. I used autosteer for about 100 miles in each direction. I didn't have any issues with nag screens. They never showed up. I kept my hand at around 9 o'clock or 7 o'clock, rotating back and forth to avoid fatigue.

It was certainly cool, and I am such a technology lover that I want to use it as much as possible. However, it didn't make the drive any less stressful. I was constantly making small adjustments keeping the car away from cars in adjacent lanes that I thought were getting too close (often the other car's fault) or nudging the wheel to start turning when approaching a curve as autosteer tends to wait later than I would like to start a turn. Autosteer also has a tendency to make small adjustments throughout a curve rather than holding a steady line through the curve, and that results in a less comfortable ride for the passengers. I found that if you apply pressure to the wheel through the curve and fight the car wanting to make those small adjustments you can hold a more stable line without disengaging autosteer.

I only had to disengage autosteer completely and take over a half dozen times in 200 miles, and only about 2 or 3 of those were because the car didn't take a curve safely. The others were when I needed to change lanes in traffic too heavy for auto lane change to work. When there was plenty of room for a lane change, I thought the auto lane change function worked great.

This sums up my experience with it perfectly.

I think the principal of staying dead center in the middle of the lane is a flawed one. The system needs to allow for vehicles that are on either side as well, and move to maintain a minimum gap between the car and the vehicle in the next lane where there is room.

Maybe it will start to do this when they activate blind-spot monitoring.

 

[Whitmarsh]

Are you sure?

Electrek said "Tesla 8.1 update: here are the features for all owners – not just with Autopilot" as the article title when discussing the headrests.

The release notes from here:

Tesla releases 8.1 software update and improves Autopilot 2.0 features: Autosteer 80 mph and Summon

Do not mention premium seats only.

This is not just for premium seats, in fact; we ordered a car in November, that was built in December, with the standard Multi-pattern Black seats and they have adjustable headrests (which surprised us because our year-old did not) and the same shape as the other types. All the seats seem now to be the same except that the other combinations of seat (albeit leather) and decor cost quite a lot of money.

 

[NikeWings]

FWIW: I found that on each drive, if I allowed AP2 to veer right for a while on an open stretch of freeway, eventually it'd compensate and center itself again. It still felt a little wobbly but at least would not immediately dive for the right lane boundary. However, after each power cycle the car seems to forget and need to re-learn.

Its wicked wobbly and it overcorrects, creating jarring movement. Not nearly has mature as AP1, obviously, but its got to settle down.