DJ 240V
Member
Ok so it beeps as well.. that happened to me just once on surface street , never on freeway yet. Thanks for sharing though - no doubt we all need to be extra cautious until this irons out.
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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
The first version for public release passed validation. They never said every feature would be immediately available. Tesla did the same thing with AP1. Why would you expect anything different with AP2?
The ONLY people who have a legit gripe are those that ordered based on AP1 and ended up with AP2. In the long run they will be happier, but I can see why they are annoyed, as they didn't get to make the choice. The rest of us did.
I ordered in November and this is my first (and possibly last) Tesla. Why would I know they did the same thing for AP1? Am I suppose to do a search to see if Tesla has a history of promising things that can't deliver?? I was never on this site until the day I picked up my car and noticed the door didn't shut right, the mirror didn't fold, the rear cup holder didn't close, and the interior cross beam fell down. Then I got on this site to see what the hell I just bought. Never had to do that with any of my other cars. The other manufacturers promise a feature and that's what you get.
As for "they never said every feature would be immediately available". - I disagree. Unless they say, on the order form, that features aren't going to be available until several months, maybe even years after your car is delivered, it is implied that they will be available. Otherwise a car could come with zero features. "Ah, we'll get you those tires in a few months."
By the way, the spec sheet said clearly that AEB would be available end of December. It didn't say "expected" , "maybe" or "possibly". It said "AEB will be available end of December".
They've launched HW2 mid October and said the software will be available in December. So 2 months + 20% equals... let's say 3 months
So they launched a not entirely usable update mid Jan., we are mid Feb. I can't rely on TACC to do a good job, I have no regular CC available, no auto rain sensor and no lane assist.
Not only that but they showed a fake FSD video in October 2016! The implication was in December the AP2 code would complete FINAL testing not initial sloppy development. People who think the term "expected" on a website will serve as legal defense to Tesla are flat out wrong. Sorry, no judge will see it that way. Its about the big picture, not a semantic technicality.
Tesla can't have me test drive a fully functional AP1 car with no hands on the wheel 2 years ago, then let time go by and add 8 cameras and claim the system is much improved, then show me a FSD video, then tell me about the car picking up Uber rides on its own, and tell me it will all be available December pending regulatory approval, then charge me $10,000 extra for this feature, and not deliver. ANY REASONABLE PERSON WOULD CONSIDER THIS TO BE FRAUD!!!
No blind spot? No rain sensor? No forward collision assist?
Explain why that isn't ready yet? Machine learning needed to analyze the rain drops?
This will almost certainly end in class action if Tesla can't deliver.
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EXPECT
a : to consider probable or certain <expect to be forgiven> <expect that things will improve>
As in, I expect all features that I paid for to be working soon, or Tesla can expect to buy my car back.
a : to consider probable or certain <expect to be forgiven> <expect that things will improve>
As in, I expect all features that I paid for to be working soon, or Tesla can expect to buy my car back.
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So why is your expectation turning out so much better than the expectation that Tesla themselves prominently displayed (parity by end of 2016)? Isn't it weird that a total outsider, based on a single data point from Elon, is better in estimating the timeline? How many outsiders does it take to guess better than Tesla themselves before it's becoming clear that either Tesla is incompetent or didn't believe themselves in hitting the December date? And really, incompetence is not something I associate with Tesla. So, if they didn't believe it themselves, but wrote it anyway on their website, how is that not misleading at the least and possibly (different jurisdictions, different strokes) something that I don't dare to name for now at worst?
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
I don't think Tesla expected that their main Autopilot-man turned on them and grabbed a couple of Autopilot team members with him.
I also don't think Tesla expected the forward camera was installed with an improper pitch angle.
None of us have any clue as to what these two things has meant for their expected progress. Or if there has been other unexpected events over at the Autopilot camp that has slowed things down.
Don't get me right: I'm not defending Teslas lack of clear communication. I'm just saying that the (f)actual reasons for the delay might be explained with other things than incompetence or over-optimism... Things like sh*** happens. We all wish they were more open to us about what kind of sh***.
I also don't think Tesla expected the forward camera was installed with an improper pitch angle.
None of us have any clue as to what these two things has meant for their expected progress. Or if there has been other unexpected events over at the Autopilot camp that has slowed things down.
Don't get me right: I'm not defending Teslas lack of clear communication. I'm just saying that the (f)actual reasons for the delay might be explained with other things than incompetence or over-optimism... Things like sh*** happens. We all wish they were more open to us about what kind of sh***.
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That happened after December.
Also after December.
There is a very short window of such unexpected stuff to happen between the announcement in October and the initially set expectation of December. And, even then, they had the wording about parity prominently displayed all to way through half way January. Not changing those (while you had other changes to that specific part of the website) is indefensible in the face of what you claim a potentially big development issue which surely must have escalated to the highest level with Elon tweeting and tweeting on different 'releases'.
drshan
Active Member
Watch one of the software version 7.0 YouTube videos on the initial auto steer release and then go out and drive one of the hardware two cars. This will offer a better perspective on the forum concern. Entirely different experience.
sillydriver
Member
Reading this thread I'm glad I own a spring 2015 vintage P85DL.
It would have cost Tesla at least a couple hundred bucks extra per car, but what I think Tesla should have done was sell early AP2 cars with both sets of hardware, leaving an EyeQ3 in the mirror housing, which would share the medium-view forward camera's feed with the AP2 hardware. Obviously this would be a major hardware kludge, but I can't believe its implementation would compromise the AP2 hardware that would be included. Then AP1 functionality would run on these newer cars, and owners of those cars would have nothing to complain about: their cars would still be future-proofed. AP2 software could then be developed at Tesla's leisure, where alpha versions would be running in the background for software development and to compile fleet learning. When AP2 software was finally ready for prime time, Tesla would cut over and actively use the new hardware, turning off AP1.
It would have cost Tesla at least a couple hundred bucks extra per car, but what I think Tesla should have done was sell early AP2 cars with both sets of hardware, leaving an EyeQ3 in the mirror housing, which would share the medium-view forward camera's feed with the AP2 hardware. Obviously this would be a major hardware kludge, but I can't believe its implementation would compromise the AP2 hardware that would be included. Then AP1 functionality would run on these newer cars, and owners of those cars would have nothing to complain about: their cars would still be future-proofed. AP2 software could then be developed at Tesla's leisure, where alpha versions would be running in the background for software development and to compile fleet learning. When AP2 software was finally ready for prime time, Tesla would cut over and actively use the new hardware, turning off AP1.
Not everyone has spent the last four years of their life on this website. Some people walk into a store, talk to a salesman and then buy a car.
Speaking of which, does anyone know what they are using for test drives today? Are they using cars with AP2 HW or do they have some old AP1 cars they are holding onto?
How confident are you that Tesla has contractual support with MobileEye to do such a thing? Source?
My impression was that the parting of ways preventing anything like what you describe.
mblakele
FSD Beta (99)
I don't think that was an option. Engineering questions aside, Mobileye and Tesla parted ways rather abruptly, a month or two before HW2 was announced. The news stories about the breakup don't give us all the details, and there was some finger-pointing going on. But whoever you believe, it seems clear that the relationship ended badly. Under the circumstances Mobileye probably wouldn't provide HW1 cameras for new vehicle production, so Tesla had to switch to HW2 in a hurry. That probably contributed to the current state of AP with HW2.
drshan
Active Member
Surprised this has not reached the mainstream media yet.
If they are test driving the HW2 AP2 ...could end up on SNL.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
My thoughts exactly. This debacle isn't going to go on much longer before it starts showing up in the news. Maybe thanks to all of the attention on Trump, it hasn't yet.
disagree
hos epi to polu
I'd bet that other auto manufacturers are simply trying to figure out how best to take advantage of this. They surely know about it.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
Ironically I did a google search and found this article Tesla's New Autopilot Firmware Is Like Driving Drunk, Says One Owner Apparently the OP posted his observations in the official Tesla forum also.
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sillydriver
Member
The parting of the ways was not amicable, but for a small company like MobilEye, getting more revenue from a product like EyeQ3 is usually good thing that would be pursued.
Nevertheless, I agree with both of you that this is a reasonable explanation for Tesla's not doing what I suggested above.
But the question then raised is this: if MobilEye really had the power and leverage to cut off product to Tesla so early on as to prevent their pursuing a redundant hardware solution, then perhaps MobilEye also cut off hardware to Tesla so early on that it forced Tesla to switch to a hardware solution from Nvidia long before the associated software was ready and long before Tesla would have made the switch to AP2 otherwise.
This may be the real reason why Tesla is apparently screwing / defrauding / annoying their customers who have bought recent cars with AP2, so it is not because Tesla is a bunch of fools, liars, etc.
Edit: In other words, an emphasized version of your comment, @mblakele (just shows I shouldn't quote and respond to posts until after I read more than their first sentence).
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