This is why I value "autonomy", "self-driving", and "Tesla Network" at $0.00. They're not going to get it to work.
I don't think it matters much in the long run.
I don't think it matters much in the long run.
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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
How can AP2 be this bad after Tesla released video in October showing it stopping at stop signs and driving by itself without issues. More and more it looks like that video was not on this new hardware or something shady is going on.
Just to add in general, I'm coming from a 2016 Honda Accord Touring (TOTL) which has pretty good, if not outstanding, on-board computer-aided driving which I've enjoyed greatly. It came with:
• Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) which helps maintain a set car-following interval, and speeds up and slows down accordingly.
• Road Departure Mitigation System (RDM), which is a small forward-facing camera in front of the rearview mirror body housing that identifies common safety markers, like lane dividers and raised pavement markers, and alerts if it detects that the car is about to leave the road.
• Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) ensures that if you begin to leave the center of a detected lane without signaling, the steering adjusts ON ITS OWN to keep you centered.
I've been amazed at the accuracy and comfort of these three technologies and used them all the time. That said, there were still "issues" and scares such as on a local road when the car in front of you turns right and you are continuing forward, the tip of his (receding) bumper almost 98% already in the right-hand road triggers the Collision warnings and automatic breaking on the Accord and the car slams on breaks(!) even though the road is clear ahead. This happens every time in this scenario and the car never "learns" or adjusts its paranoid behavior.
On the highway it was a pleasure to drive since when it finds the road markings it does a terrific job staying within the lane and even handles cresting, curves, etc. However it bugs you to tap/jiggle the steering wheel every 70 seconds or so, so it is not really self driving.
My point is the technology is out there. Perhaps Honda licenses/uses MobileEye which can explain why they are seemingly somewhat ahead?
My 2017 Tesla AP2 Model S AWD is due in 2-3 weeks and I'm very much looking forward to owning it and contributing here like all of you have and continue to do.
Hopefully by the time it's here (Northeast) AP2 would be further ahead.
BTW someone upthread (or in another thread) posted that most(!) of the AP2 cameras aren't even live yet (he tested by taping over them one by one to see effect), perhaps that means an exponential improvement is possible once they turn them on?
• Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) which helps maintain a set car-following interval, and speeds up and slows down accordingly.
• Road Departure Mitigation System (RDM), which is a small forward-facing camera in front of the rearview mirror body housing that identifies common safety markers, like lane dividers and raised pavement markers, and alerts if it detects that the car is about to leave the road.
• Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) ensures that if you begin to leave the center of a detected lane without signaling, the steering adjusts ON ITS OWN to keep you centered.
I've been amazed at the accuracy and comfort of these three technologies and used them all the time. That said, there were still "issues" and scares such as on a local road when the car in front of you turns right and you are continuing forward, the tip of his (receding) bumper almost 98% already in the right-hand road triggers the Collision warnings and automatic breaking on the Accord and the car slams on breaks(!) even though the road is clear ahead. This happens every time in this scenario and the car never "learns" or adjusts its paranoid behavior.
On the highway it was a pleasure to drive since when it finds the road markings it does a terrific job staying within the lane and even handles cresting, curves, etc. However it bugs you to tap/jiggle the steering wheel every 70 seconds or so, so it is not really self driving.
My point is the technology is out there. Perhaps Honda licenses/uses MobileEye which can explain why they are seemingly somewhat ahead?
My 2017 Tesla AP2 Model S AWD is due in 2-3 weeks and I'm very much looking forward to owning it and contributing here like all of you have and continue to do.
Hopefully by the time it's here (Northeast) AP2 would be further ahead.
BTW someone upthread (or in another thread) posted that most(!) of the AP2 cameras aren't even live yet (he tested by taping over them one by one to see effect), perhaps that means an exponential improvement is possible once they turn them on?
The roads in the demo are mapped. This is either good or bad news depending on the amount of data massaging they had to do to get those roads mapped.
Someone there posted this funny related clip in the comments:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
Here's the thread mentioned earlier discussing theories how many cameras are actually "ON" and in use presently on AP2.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well with a rear camera tied into the system, it allows it to adjust the confidence level in applying full braking in a likely false positive situation. For example, if it detects it is 100% sure there is no vehicle approaching the rear, it can err on the side of doing a false positive braking, while if it detects a car coming up, adjust that level (be more strict against a false positive).
I'm not saying this is how it works currently, but at the very least, from what Tesla says on their autopilot page, the rear camera now plays as part in the decisions AP2 makes.
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Well, there it is!
Nice work Tesla. You have damaged your historic achievement of Autopilot to the point that this guy is only expecting AP2 performance equivalent to Honda's sh*tty LKAS capability!
For all those people who have not experienced AP1 first-hand, you are really not understanding how much it can do. In an absurd way, it is almost good that what they had perviously been able to provide via mobileye is not better known. Buyers who have no AP1 experience are going to think the fumbling novelty operation of the current AP2 release is entertaining. For customers that traded working AP1 cars for gimped AP2 cars, it's got to be a loooooong commute.
This. Seems only a couple of cameras are actually on, so maybe this may assuage some concerns, no?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm not making up facts from thin air. this is what it says on the autopilot page:
"Rear View Camera
Not just for backing up safely, the rear view camera is now a contributing member of the Autopilot hardware suite with enhanced optics. The rear view camera is useful when performing complex parking maneuvers."
Autopilot
I did misspeak about the rear side cameras, those will be enabled only if you have the FSD option. It is not enabled in EAP. EAP only involves 4 cameras (3 front facing and the rear facing camera). From the self-driving demo video, it clearly shows the two rear facing side cameras is used to do in-path objection detection (so it can be used to detect if a car is coming up in the rear of the vehicle), but they may not be active in current vehicles yet.
Edit:
I looked at the thread, but it does not mention what happens when the rear view camera is covered (only the two side-rear ones). @Max* brings up a good point also in the thread. Just because the car still allows autopilot activation with some of the cameras covered, does not mean the cameras are not used at all (they may aid in AP2 and come into use only when the situation calls for it).
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I sold my 2016 Accord which had decent Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Road Departure Mitigation System (RDM), and Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) yesterday (as I mentioned above) and I don't plan on looking back.
Yet after following TMC and Tesla's own forums for several months now, and seeing the video posted earlier of the AP2 driving like a drunk on a road the Honda would have handled handily, it seems I'll miss the consistency of the systems on-board the lowly Honda (excepting the specific scares noted above) until AP2 is fully baked (if ever).
Here's to hoping for a surprise for a change!
Yet after following TMC and Tesla's own forums for several months now, and seeing the video posted earlier of the AP2 driving like a drunk on a road the Honda would have handled handily, it seems I'll miss the consistency of the systems on-board the lowly Honda (excepting the specific scares noted above) until AP2 is fully baked (if ever).
Here's to hoping for a surprise for a change!
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I remembered that it was the 3 front cameras and the rear from the announcement, but I guess I remembered incorrectly. If it is only using the side-rears, then it would be difficult to detect a vehicle coming up in the same lane (unless in certain situations where road is slightly curved). I guess that would only be reserved for FSD from that wording. And I think that would explain the test results why one front camera can be covered up.That isn't what Tesla said:
Edit, I know why I got that impression now. The AP2 rear camera has a specified 50m detection range, while AP1 rear camera does not specify any detection range and was explicitly for human use only.
Tesla Autopilot - Wikipedia
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lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
He did cover up two forward cameras and was still getting Autosteer functionality - albeit "erratic". The "erratic" behaviour was most likely caused by masking tape blocking some of the center, wide angle camera's view (its edge view/s).
Also, notice that he covered up the rearward facing side cameras, that are supposed to be at work in EAP. Well, they're obviously not right now.
EDIT: Then again, the fact that putting masking tape over the "Main" (passenger side) camera did cause some negative behaviour, but still allowed Autosteer, doen't mean AP2 isn't using both the Main and the FishEye. According to that screenshot above, the two forward cameras are "redundant". (BTW isn' that poor English, saying that they're *both* redundant. Tesla must mean that they are each redundant to the other.)
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
From the text about the rear side cameras, those are primarily used for lane changes (and I guess blind spot detection). So the system may still allow it to activate, but then those features may not work. Of course, the AP2 update currently does not have auto lane change and blind spot enabled if I remember correctly.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Valid point.
I guess I'm expecting some error messages in the IC when "active" cameras get permanently covered up. (Like for example if they got covered with snow or dirt in the middle of traffic. Would be nice to know immediately so that one could pull over at a convenient spot and wipe the lens clean.)
I guess I'm expecting some error messages in the IC when "active" cameras get permanently covered up. (Like for example if they got covered with snow or dirt in the middle of traffic. Would be nice to know immediately so that one could pull over at a convenient spot and wipe the lens clean.)
If AP2 is currently described by Tesla as not yet up to AP1 parity, intelligent inquisitive AP2 owners would see the obvious relevance of AP1 competency and their expectations for current abilities of AP2.
Also the time from AP1 hardware availability and demo videos (October 2014) to AP1 auto steering actually being available, even in a very rudimentary form, was one year. AP2 is already well ahead of that schedule.
This all happened with AP1 too.
My early AP1 had similar problems with shadows and hill crests. It got better but still not good enough to stop paying attention in such situations.
What they released in Oct 2015 had similar complaints to what is described now.
disagree
hos epi to polu
AP1 other than its current status as a parity benchmark is IRRELEVANT. We all know you walked uphill both ways to school...
...in the snow!
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