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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

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How is it that you don't understand?
that stats is meanless because it doesn't validate ap driving behavior.

IF everyone with ap2 were to activate autopilot on local roads for more than 10 seconds they would be dead.
that's a guarantee. how is that safe? why can't you look past your fandom and see this for what it is?
you come off as one of those people who will cover up things to further your bottom line.

you could careless about safety aslong as you can continue your tesla fandom.

Do you need more videos?

how about a guy who nearly died 5 times
after watching that, how clueless can u be?

Do you own a Tesla? I suspect not.

If you did, you would understand that Autopilot, at this stage, is a driver assistance tool. Rule number 1 is that the driver is responsible for maintaining safe control of the vehicle. As @Papafox noted, in the video from another TMC member that you re-posted the driver drove too fast for Autopilot's current capabilities on a curvy road (in fact, he was driving above the speed limit). And after having to take control once, the driver should have slowed down or simply maintained control of the vehicle himself but did not. If you were an experienced Autopilot driver, you would also understand that taking control of the vehicle is a relatively common occurrence, and is not life threatening, any more than avoiding the numerous threats on the road when driving without Autopilot.

You attack me for posting factual information about the accident reduction reported by the NHTSA from AP1. But what you do not seem willing to understand or acknowledge is that fear-mongering about Autopilot is what is irresponsible and poses a threat to public safety.

We saw the same sort of thing with AP1 and it was thoroughly debunked, with the NHTSA reporting that in its first year cars with AP1 enabled had airbag-activating (serious) accidents drop by 40%. If the naysayers, like yourself, had had their way, they would have needlessly put Tesla owners and their families and passengers in harms' way, exposing them to a far higher risk of accident, injury and perhaps death. Yet, in your zeal to bash Tesla, you seem unwilling to bring yourself to acknowledge that AP1 might actually be avoiding accidents and saving lives.

In fact, over the past two years, while AP1-enabled vehicles experienced a massive drop in serious accidents, the National Safety Council estimated that overall automobile fatalities in the U.S. actually increased by 14% -- the largest in more than 50 years -- with about 40,000 people dying on the roads in the U.S. in 2016. U.S. motor vehicle deaths see biggest two year jump in over 50 years, per NSC

Think about it. If the rest of the automobile industry had achieved the 40 percent reduction in serious accidents the NHTSA reported in Tesla vehicles after enabling AP1, it is possible that 15,000-20,000 lives could have been saved in the U.S. in just one year. That is the promise of this technology.

And yet, people like you who try to stand in its way are the ones who claim to be concerned about public safety. That is a cruel joke.

AP2 is a much more powerful and robust system than AP1, and Tesla already has access to reams of data on its safety gathered over millions of miles. Tesla is rolling AP2 out slowly and carefully as the data permits. Given Tesla's track record with AP1, I trust its analysis of the data far more than a random internet poster with an axe to grind cherry picking a few videos that show AP2's limitations.

It is not Tesla who is falling down on the job of improving automotive safety but the rest of the industry, including the automakers in your home state of Michigan. It is their efforts that are proving totally ineffective in protecting public safety on the roads, while Tesla is moving rapidly ahead with life-saving Autopilot technology. And when the data come out in a year or two, I am confident that Autopilot 2's safety will again be vindicated, and that all of the AP2 naysayers will be nowhere to be found, just like the AP1 naysayers are now.
 
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I guess the silver lining here: there is zero indication that NHTSA is going to get in the way of Tesla releases with regulatory checks. I mean, if they aren't going to require any better baking than this, they clearly are just cool with whatever Tesla wants to distribute.

The people involved in software probably share a common mindset with the people working inside Tesla on this system. Unfortunately, they don't seem to share a mindset with engineers who have been designing multi-ton vehicles that can run off the road or fall out of the sky for the last century. This casual attitude toward mistakes is really not going to end well in the automotive sphere regardless of how swell things went for your app ;)
 
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I guess the silver lining here: there is zero indication that NHTSA is going to get in the way of Tesla releases with regulatory checks. I mean, if they aren't going to require any better baking than this, they clearly are just cool with whatever Tesla wants to distribute.

The people involved in software probably share a common mindset with the people working inside Tesla on this system. Unfortunately, they don't seem to share a mindset with engineers who have been designing multi-ton vehicles that can run off the road or fall out of the sky for the last century. This casual attitude toward mistakes is really not going to end well in the automotive sphere regardless of how swell things went for your app ;)

When I first saw AP1 videos I thought the same - why is Tesla releasing something so unsafe. In retrospect drivers learned when (not)to use it (plus Tesla set few restrictions) and stats show 40% in accident reduction. Overall I think it'll be the same for AP2.0.
 
From the AP2 fail videos in many cases it looks like the car is detecting the lanes correctly but then still screws up the steering. That's worrying since you'd think that they would have the steering part all taken care off. If the world is detected correctly everything else shouldn't be the different than programming a video game.
 
Just another word of warning to those trying AP2 on divided highways. Several times we've been approaching a congested area in the left lane with the right lane already backed up. When a vehicle from the right lane darts into the left lane in front of you, AP2 has no clue that the vehicle even exists until it is squarely in the middle of your lane. If you're approaching the congested area at a higher speed than the merging vehicle and don't manually take control, you will plow into the vehicle. That tells me the necessary cameras/radar/software to detect the kind of accident that previously resulted in the Tesla fatality still are not functional in the latest release of AP2.

Tesla Autopilot is currently using only 1 out 8 cameras of the new hardware suite, still very much in ‘beta’
 
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The most frustrating part of AP 2.0 for users, from what I've heard, is the 50 mph restriction in speed during highway driving. There have also been reports of substantial braking when no obstacle exists ahead. My guess would be that the reason for this speed restriction and these behaviors is that AP 2.0 involves a more complex solution in order to avoid the type of accident with a broadside semi-truck or similar obstacle that occurred in the Josh Brown accident. My understanding is that overhead signs, overpasses, and other obstacles can produce false warnings when seen from a certain distance and that Tesla is dealing with these warnings by marking the locations of such obstacles that reside safely above the Tesla's height and using that obstacle's position to disable a braking response to that particular obstacle. Until the AP 2.0 can reliably avoid such braking events for all overhead signs and obstacles, the speed is restricted. Does your use of AP 2.0 confirm or conflict with this explanation? The implications here are that the core reason for AP 2.0 being speed restricted is that a much more complex solution to certain threats is being worked out. I know that explanation doesn't help your commuting any, but at least there's some comfort in understanding that once the software allows higher speeds to be used, your AP 2.0 will provide you with safety features above and beyond what currently exists in AP 1.0.
 
Does anyone know why often-times autosteer just becomes unavailable for entire drives? I drove to a store this morning, and autosteer was an option the entire way. Neat! After dropping off some stuff, I got back in my X to drive home, but autosteer was not an option. Got home, reloaded the X with more stuff to drop-off, and then drove back to the store. This time, autosteer was neither available to nor from the store. So for 3 out of 4 legs, no autosteer. Je ne comprends pas.
 
Does anyone know why often-times autosteer just becomes unavailable for entire drives? I drove to a store this morning, and autosteer was an option the entire way. Neat! After dropping off some stuff, I got back in my X to drive home, but autosteer was not an option. Got home, reloaded the X with more stuff to drop-off, and then drove back to the store. This time, autosteer was neither available to nor from the store. So for 3 out of 4 legs, no autosteer. Je ne comprends pas.

If you park facing the sun, the camera wakes up blind, cannot calibrate, and disables autosteer until you park and leave the vehicle for a min or two and it can calibrate properly.
 
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It is not Tesla who is falling down on the job of improving automotive safety but the rest of the industry, including the automakers in your home state of Michigan. It is their efforts that are proving totally ineffective in protecting public safety on the roads, while Tesla is moving rapidly ahead with life-saving Autopilot technology.

Well, we can say that Mobileye is moving forward with life saving technology. It is unclear what Tesla is capable of doing.

At this point I have to wonder if the AP team has had major turnover. No one with a technical AP background needs to put up with being bullied by Musk. Maybe it was just not Mobileye that walked away from unreasonable demands.
 
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The most frustrating part of AP 2.0 for users, from what I've heard, is the 50 mph restriction in speed during highway driving. There have also been reports of substantial braking when no obstacle exists ahead. My guess would be that the reason for this speed restriction and these behaviors is that AP 2.0 involves a more complex solution in order to avoid the type of accident with a broadside semi-truck or similar obstacle that occurred in the Josh Brown accident. My understanding is that overhead signs, overpasses, and other obstacles can produce false warnings when seen from a certain distance and that Tesla is dealing with these warnings by marking the locations of such obstacles that reside safely above the Tesla's height and using that obstacle's position to disable a braking response to that particular obstacle. Until the AP 2.0 can reliably avoid such braking events for all overhead signs and obstacles, the speed is restricted. Does your use of AP 2.0 confirm or conflict with this explanation? The implications here are that the core reason for AP 2.0 being speed restricted is that a much more complex solution to certain threats is being worked out. I know that explanation doesn't help your commuting any, but at least there's some comfort in understanding that once the software allows higher speeds to be used, your AP 2.0 will provide you with safety features above and beyond what currently exists in AP 1.0.

Difficult to answer. While your guess is as good as any, and is logically sound, who outside of Tesla knows the real reason? Never having owned or driven an AP1 Tesla, and too many posts here to search or wade through, it's not clear to me that AP1 TACC had the same issues with overhead signs. While most AP2 are momentary brake events, a few I've had were very hard braking, to the point that if there was a vehicle tailgating, they'd wind up in your back seat. One though may have been coincident with an overhead sign while passing a car carrier. The combination of the two may have contributed to the worst panic, FCW, hard, anti lock braking event I hope to never experience again.

You should know though that it's not always overhead signs in the distance. Sometimes it seems it's seconds before going under them, and it's always been non-electronic signs in my case to date...

And the speed restriction is not really a factor when using TACC alone, unless your point is a hard braking event would be worse for following vehicles at higher speeds.

I've not driven the route on I95 South again where I've had the worst of the panic braking, but hope to again soon. Hopefully whitelisted by now.

I'm sure Tesla will get it resolved. Can't come soon enough.
 
My understanding is that overhead signs, overpasses, and other obstacles can produce false warnings when seen from a certain distance and that Tesla is dealing with these warnings by marking the locations of such obstacles that reside safely above the Tesla's height and using that obstacle's position to disable a braking response to that particular obstacle.


Curious what happens if there is a stalled truck in the same spot of a previously white-listed false alarm area.

Will AP2 plow right into it?
 
Because it's absurd that parking facing the sun can disable the system. :(

Unfortunately it is the most common reason I am aware of for this kind of message. I had it on my AP1 loaner I got from Tesla (no AP the entire drive to work (and I was so excited to have autosteer for highway driving at normal speeds)). Ironically, there was heavy traffic that day and I could've used my damn AP2 autosteer but instead had nothing.

Any camera based system will have this limitation and its not unique to AP2 or Tesla. It takes 1-2 minutes to fix by not blinding the camera and allowing the system to recalibrate or just not parking in the sun.
 
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Curious what happens if there is a stalled truck in the same spot of a previously white-listed false alarm area.

Will AP2 plow right into it?

This may not always prevent a collision entirely, but the impact speed will be dramatically reduced to the point where there are unlikely to be serious injuries to the vehicle occupants.

Taken from this blog post