That demo video was clearly about FSD added feature of the car, and there is no reason to expect that to be working at this point just because of a R&D demo video. Even Elon's ambitious goals were to have a public demonstration of that by the end of 2017 NY to CA at the earliest, and the feature is caveated with emphasis on regulator approval on top of this.
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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
That demo video was clearly about FSD added feature of the car, and there is no reason to expect that to be working at this point just because of a R&D demo video. Even Elon's ambitious goals were to have a public demonstration of that by the end of 2017 NY to CA at the earliest, and the feature is caveated with emphasis on regulator approval on top of this.
I think the point is that by the time the 3 is released they will have worked the kinks out on this stuff using the lower volume early adapters in S/X. It's the whole business model really, Elon never tried to hide it either. Laid out the business model day one in the master plan.
I don't believe it was ever suggested that upon software release of EAP it would be at instant function parity with AP1. Elon's tweets seem to have admitted this wouldn't be the case.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
If Tesla doesn't change its public communications to be more idiot-friendly, they will have many unhappy Model 3 customers. I've long felt that they should adopt the Apple approach: what they have shipped is all they talk about. Then people couldn't whine about what Tesla has promised because they promise nothing. It eliminates a host of problems and doesn't require much effort be dedicated to PR. On the other hand you end up with a fairly active rumor mill which can be destructive in its own right. I know I'd prefer it.
disagree
hos epi to polu
"Tesla's Enhance Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval."
Nowhere in my purchase agreement is it suggested that EAP would be rolled out in updateS. Nowhere in my agreement does it say that PARTS of EAP are expected to complete validation.
What's fascinating is that I fully comprehend how people who are inured to Elon's bullshit aren't surprised. But that the fanboys cannot see past their adoration of Elon indeed suggests a stockholm syndrome situation. It's weird. At any rate, their happy acceptance of duplicity changes absolutely ZERO material facts.
One thing I noticed with the ap2 car driving at 50mph on Kennedy expressway towards downtown Chicago - it would brake while going under the bridge with a collusion warning, not all times but it has happened a few times.
It the corrects and proceeds after that brief blip.
This is unsafe as the person behind me got really upset.
It the corrects and proceeds after that brief blip.
This is unsafe as the person behind me got really upset.
NerdUno
Member
Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the name calling. If any comments degrade the quality of the forum, yours would be a textbook example. What exactly is your background? What is your connection, if any, to the Tesla organization? Are you on the payroll? Are you a shareholder? There's obviously something about the criticism that irritates you. Just trying to figure out why. I can assure you that none of us are idiots. I've been a licensed attorney and software developer for decades. I understand contract law and fully appreciate the issues surrounding missed deadlines with software development. But you don't lie about it. Having owned dozens of cars, I can tell you I've never had a car dealer misrepresent material facts about $100,000+ vehicles in the way that Tesla and its salespeople have. A number of us have documented these concerns. Labeling the AutoPilot video as "just a demo" is pure B.S. It purported to show an AP2 car with functioning autopilot software. It was intended to and did persuade many people to purchase Tesla AP2 vehicles. As a lawyer, I can assure you the issues raised are alarming, legitimate, and actionable. They will be Tesla's undoing if they don't get addressed. A class action lawsuit on the eve of the Tesla 3 roll-out would seriously damage if not destroy the Tesla brand. I hope I speak for most of us in hoping it doesn't come to that.
disagree
hos epi to polu
Yep. We are alpha testing an unsafe product so that Tesla could sell a lot of Q4 cars.
Right, complete validation and then be released. Nowhere did it say it would be at AP1 parity at release. You seem to have assumed and or wanted to believe this.
You're the one that assumed AP2 software would be at AP1 parity at software release. I sure as *sugar* didn't think that would be the case.
Really?? You think customers were supposed to assume that ENHANCED Autopilot would be a large step backwards from Regular Autopilot?? What is your definition of the word enhanced??
And don't references tweets. They give no legal relief of false or misleading advertising on the order form. I don't even have a Twitter account and was never informed that one was part of our contract.
disagree
hos epi to polu
I'm not even interested in AP1 parity. Put that aside and read the words in the agreement. The EAP software would complete validation -- not parts of the EAP software. It would be rolled out in AN over-the-air update -- not in a SERIES of over-the-air updateS.
If reading un-official internet forums or having had experience with AP1 is required to understand the real meaning of the agreement, then that's a problem.
Elon admitted upon initial public release that AP2 would be inferior to AP1 for 'several months' minimum. If you were even a tiny bit familiar with AP1, you knew that it got better with updates over time. In that context i certainly didn't think AP2 would be at parity with AP1 at the initial software release, I also don't see a lot of owners feeling misled over this, i see a few loud complainers and at least as many who are content with regular improvements and updates.
So your grievance here is that you feel you were led to believe that AP2 EAP would be released over the air in one first and final update? And that it is instead being rolled out and improved gradually with OTA updates was misleading?
disagree
hos epi to polu
No. That was just one aspect of the misrepresentation from Tesla that I was trying to help you understand. It is part of the larger problem that has been elucidated very well by several posters in this thread. And the numbers of people feeling mislead seems to be increasing, even as the volume of fanboys increases to try to drown them out.
I listened to the audio clip again, and I come away with something slightly different, although I acknowledge it is open for interpretation.
I heard AP2 when initially released will have fewer features than AP1, and then after field testing which will take about three months, AP2 will be better than AP1.
Field testing is not validation. Field testing is what we're doing right now. The only conflict I see between the recording and other statements Elon has made is that it will take 300M miles for us to reach parity. Tesla can't obtain 300M miles in three months time (in fact my estimation was based on shadow learning occurring from day 1 that cars with hw2 were produced.)
Three months from the initial release is the very end of March. Add the word "about" and I can see it easily taking us into June.
I ordered the car in November based on what was stated on the order form. What Elon announced in late December is irrelevant, as I already purchased the car and couldn't return it. Further, his announcement was on Twitter which is not part of any contract or legal advertising.
I never had AP1 so, no I was not aware that it got better over time. That was not stated on the order form either. Nor was it stated by the sales man or during the test drive. Had I known that I would be without AEB and a usable form of cruise control (one that doesn't make dangerous emergency braking for no reason), I would have simply waited for AP2 to become usable before I placed an order.
Finally, I don't think it matters how many owners you see as being misled, nor the ratio you see as misled to content.
Btw, I really don't like the name calling, or being called a fanboy. I've been critical of Tesla on many occasions, but I give them a lot of wiggle room because what they are doing is important. I try to remember the big picture. Tesla usually delivers, but they do have a history of being late and overly optimistic with their estimations.
I agree that Tesla needs to change its behavior if it wants to survive the general masses that will come with Model 3.
I agree that Tesla could have done a much better job communicating the details on how/when AP2 would be deployed.
All the data was there, but a customer shouldn't have to read the forums or Elon's tweets to understand what they're buying into.
Debating this isn't going to change anything. If you feel strongly about how the deployment of AP2 was described to you, my suggestion is you write a letter to Tesla and share your opinion. Do it so they can learn from the feedback. Then perhaps try to be patient and see where we are come June.
Please remember the big picture here. Sustainable energy. Saving our planet.
I agree that Tesla needs to change its behavior if it wants to survive the general masses that will come with Model 3.
I agree that Tesla could have done a much better job communicating the details on how/when AP2 would be deployed.
All the data was there, but a customer shouldn't have to read the forums or Elon's tweets to understand what they're buying into.
Debating this isn't going to change anything. If you feel strongly about how the deployment of AP2 was described to you, my suggestion is you write a letter to Tesla and share your opinion. Do it so they can learn from the feedback. Then perhaps try to be patient and see where we are come June.
Please remember the big picture here. Sustainable energy. Saving our planet.
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I won't be testing as it "seems" they did not make the effort to properly test before the release. Maybe the car they tested with did not report the overpasses/signs as false collisions.
I can understand this(false collisions) happening on less known highways but not on major ones and around big cities.
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