Wiki FSD Beta 10.4

[GranularHail]

Normally, when you're stopped behind a vehicle stopped at a traffic light, the preceding car will have its brake lights on. In my experience so far, as long as that condition is met (preceding car showing brake lights) my car won't attempt to go around them. At least, most of the time it won't.

But if the preceding car's brake lights go out, within just a few seconds, my car will reclassify them as a "Parked Vehicle" and attempt to go around them.

Fantastic observation! This makes a lot of things I've seen make sense.

This could explain the problem I had the other day where my car thought the pickup truck in front was parked/stationary throughout 5 miles of following it down the road. The key data point I didn't connect at the time was that this truck was a bit unusual and didn't have conventional passenger vehicle brake lights. It was a plumber's truck with toolboxes and racks on it, with no middle brake light. The lights that it had on the sides were small circular red lights, like you typically see on a semi trailer. I didn't notice at the time for this particular vehicle, but I've seen FSD visualization typically struggle with indicating if those type of brake lights are on or not, so it's plausible that FSD never thought the truck's brake lights were on throughout this whole event.

In this post, I thought I had the conditions figured out that would result in trying to go around vehicles at a red light or stop sign:

1. The cars at the end of the line are at a dead stop
2. FSD can't see the red light / stop sign
3. There is no visible oncoming car

However I think you've found a 4th condition that belongs in the list:
4. FSD doesn't see (or at least visualize) the brake lights on the car at the end of the line

I had another experience yesterday that supports this hypothesis. I was at the back of a long line of cars at a traffic light, with the cars stopped, the traffic light out of sight beyond a hill, and several moments with no oncoming cars. FSD waited patiently, while the visualization showed the brake lights on the Mustang in front of me. Once the cars started to move up ahead, the Mustang driver let his foot off of the brake, but the car barely moved as were were going uphill, and shortly after the visualization indicated the brake lights were off, FSD tried to cross the double yellow line to pass.


So, it now appears to me that all of these things need to be true to trigger the go-around problem:

1. The cars at the end of the line are at a dead stop
2. FSD can't see the red light / stop sign
3. There is no visible oncoming car
4. FSD doesn't see (or at least visualize) the brake lights on the car at the end of the line

 

[vr493tt]

Same here. I was on 2021.36.5.1 and yesterday downloaded and installed 2021.36.8.5. Release notes explained all about 10.4 FSD beta and all but no difference in display. Can't engage FSD beta. I still see the option to request "Full self driving beta" available although my safety score disappeared from the app. Don't know what to do other than to wait for another update to appear to hopefully fix this.

Finally got mine working. Aside from several reboot attempts when parked… I did this after a short 5 mile drive …but this time reboot using the steering wheels while car was in motion. Sure enough it started showing FSD BETA option after it came back up.

Good look to you guys out there… and pls be safe if you try this while driving. Just seems to take the screen away…but rest of the cars operation was functional!

 

[hanxu128]

Finally got mine working. Aside from several reboot attempts when parked… I did this after a short 5 mile drive …but this time reboot using the steering wheels while car was in motion. Sure enough it started showing FSD BETA option after it came back up.

Good look to you guys out there… and pls be safe if you try this while driving. Just seems to take the screen away…but rest of the cars operation was functional!

Nice. I’ll give it a try today.

I did a bunch of reset in park as well as the power off button in security settings, none of the them worked.

I’ll try your reset in motion thing. Thanks

 

[RVTechNomad]

How often should I report FSD beta errors while I’m driving? I talking about pressing the small camera icon at the top right of my screen (model X). The software fails often on city streets. Should I send everything It does wrong? Thank you.

 

[Massive Attack]

Really odd FSD experience last night. Only my second day to testing, and it performed VERY well with respect to arriving at the destination without disengagements or being in the wrong lane. Aside from 1 instance of phantom braking while driving over a bridge. Not a brake-stab, but an unnecessary slow down from 45mph to 37mph.

However, the odd thing it did was it kept putting the windshield wipers on. It was night driving (6pm), but the sky was 100% clear. I keep my windshield super clean and I checked the camera area for bugs and debris. Nothing. I had 3 trip destinations in my testing, but this only occurred during the first trip. The wipers would wipe once, every 15-20 seconds for about 4 miles.

Not sure how to report that! lol

 

[d21mike]

YouTuber "Dirty Tesla" may have solved the erratic behaviors mentioned hear by calibrating the cameras. Will try tomorrow. If this works there may be a software calibration error in 10.4 and camera recalibration may be necessary for 10.5.

I saw that as well and plan to try it. But wondering if the camera recalibration is somehow affected by software version? I am going on a trip Monday (170 miles). Just deciding if I should wait for 10.5 this early Saturday Morning? Unless it does not show up till Monday like some in the past.

 

[pwccycles]

Looks like at least somebody got it a few hours earlier- vid here-

Initial impressions were bit of regression around turn hesitancy/jerkiness.... also stops in middle of a turn blocking traffic at about 5:24.

I've noticed the same behaviors on turns, especially stopping in the middle of the road with cars coming. That and severe "cutting" left hand turns, which is even worse on a blind corner. Taking a step back though it is incredible in how many things it does well! And this is beta right? It seems that some forget this. Thanks for the post / video. Very good feedback!

 

[pwccycles]

Really odd FSD experience last night. Only my second day to testing, and it performed VERY well with respect to arriving at the destination without disengagements or being in the wrong lane. Aside from 1 instance of phantom braking while driving over a bridge. Not a brake-stab, but an unnecessary slow down from 45mph to 37mph.

However, the odd thing it did was it kept putting the windshield wipers on. It was night driving (6pm), but the sky was 100% clear. I keep my windshield super clean and I checked the camera area for bugs and debris. Nothing. I had 3 trip destinations in my testing, but this only occurred during the first trip. The wipers would wipe once, every 15-20 seconds for about 4 miles.

Not sure how to report that! lol

My Y did the same thing but noted that it was cleaning the window for the camera.

 

[JulienW]

How often should I report FSD beta errors while I’m driving? I talking about pressing the small camera icon at the top right of my screen (model X). The software fails often on city streets. Should I send everything It does wrong? Thank you.

No one knows for sure and Tesla ain't a saying. It was reported in the past (by a YouTuber) that Tesla only allows 5 snapshots per drive and then overwrites.

Tesla should REALLY outline what they want from us so we can be the most efficient.

 

[jagbagri]

Finally got mine working. Aside from several reboot attempts when parked… I did this after a short 5 mile drive …but this time reboot using the steering wheels while car was in motion. Sure enough it started showing FSD BETA option after it came back up.

Good look to you guys out there… and pls be safe if you try this while driving. Just seems to take the screen away…but rest of the cars operation was functional!

I tried this trick this morning on my work commute but no luck. Initiated a service request for this. Let's see what happens.

 

[aircooled]

Same no FSD as others. I downloaded 2021.36.8.5 without an issue. Software screen shows FSD Beta 10.4. But in autopilot setting I’m still in the queue for fsd beta. I tried one double press steering wheel reboot in the garage but no help. I'll try the rolling reboot and the camera cal at the next opportunity.

 

[fordhamg]

Apologies if this question is answered somewhere else, but I searched and couldn't find it. I took delivery of my Model S LR last Friday. I have FSD included. My question is when I get access to it? I don't even have the update where I can request access to the beta yet, and from reading various posts, looks like I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for my first update. But why? I don't understand why I can't get the latest update immediately. I understand then I have to get my safety score to 100 to be granted full access. Can someone lay out the full roadmap for getting on the beta for a new owner like myself (or point me to another post describing it)?

 

[d21mike]

Apologies if this question is answered somewhere else, but I searched and couldn't find it. I took delivery of my Model S LR last Friday. I have FSD included. My question is when I get access to it? I don't even have the update where I can request access to the beta yet, and from reading various posts, looks like I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for my first update. But why? I don't understand why I can't get the latest update immediately. I understand then I have to get my safety score to 100 to be granted full access. Can someone lay out the full roadmap for getting on the beta for a new owner like myself (or point me to another post describing it)?

It is generally helpful if you report which software version you are on. If you purchase FSD then you should be on the FSD Production Version where you can set your FSD Options under AutoPilot. The FSD Beta is much different and mainly for surface streets. If my memory is correct the option to request to be put in the FSD Beta Request Queue came with software version 2021.36.22. Once you get the option (forgot which menu it is on) you can request to be added. Then you will put in the Safety Score program which will appear in your phone app. You will need at least 100 miles driven in the SS and at this point maintain 99 or 100 score to have access to the FSD Beta Version which is currently 2021.36.8.5 / 10.4. We are expecting a new version this weekend if things go as in the past.

 

[fordhamg]

It is generally helpful if you report which software version you are on. If you purchase FSD then you should be on the FSD Production Version where you can set your FSD Options under AutoPilot. The FSD Beta is much different and mainly for surface streets. If my memory is correct the option to request to be put in the FSD Beta Request Queue came with software version 2021.36.22. Once you get the option (forgot which menu it is on) you can request to be added. Then you will put in the Safety Score program which will appear in your phone app. You will need at least 100 miles driven in the SS and at this point maintain 99 or 100 score to have access to the FSD Beta Version which is currently 2021.36.8.5 / 10.4. We are expecting a new version this weekend if things go as in the past.

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

 

[d21mike]

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

There really is no way to know when your update will come. "3 to 4 weeks" is probably just a average and something not to hang your hat on. On both my cars (below) came with a software update the same day I picked them up. I would say best is to set your option to ADVANCE in the cars settings under Software to hopefully get it sooner. The other thing is to make sure you are on WiFi (strong signal) as much as possible. Software updates generally only download on WiFi. Lastly you can not just do a download like you can with your computer or phone. That is just the way it is and has always been.

 

[JulienW]

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

No one can tell you BUT this is the way it has always been and almost everyone has to wait a few weeks before the first update, me included. It has been speculated that it takes a couple of weeks before Tesla gets a new car added to the cue. Just do like all before you have and enjoy your car as it is now, learn all about it and you will get an update and all will be forgotten in a year.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

Take any information you get from this site with a large grain of salt. Most if not all is just speculation. Recently some new cars have taken a while to start getting updates. Nobody knows if this is ubiquitous or if it's only those who don't complain on this forum.

You have fairly new software so there is nothing to stress about. When your car is selected for an update it will receive an update.

 

[floodland]

I received 10.4 yesterday (after bouncing between 98 and 99 for a week) and on my initial drive compared it to how AP has behaved on the same drives.
Car - M3 SR+ - Dec 2019 - Previous software 2021.32.31 - Current software 2021.36.8.5. No issue enabling FSD after software update.

Situation : 4 way intersection that is not symmetrical
AP : Complete failure, stops and requires intervention
FSD: Went though the intersection without issues

Situation : Freeway entrance with cars coming from both left and right (it's a really screwy situation)
AP: Stops as if there is a stop sign and requires manual intervention
FSD: Moved slowly around corner causing unsafe situation and other drivers to honk, had to disengage to continue.

Situation: Disabled signal light (single yellow lights signaling carpool only access)
AP: Slows down significantly (zone is 50mph, car drops to ~30) appears to think it is a 3 light stoplight that is off, causes unsafe situation
FSD: Did not react to light

 

[lolder]

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

Make sure you are connected to wi-fi.

 

[Phlier]

Apologies if this question is answered somewhere else, but I searched and couldn't find it. I took delivery of my Model S LR last Friday. I have FSD included. My question is when I get access to it? I don't even have the update where I can request access to the beta yet, and from reading various posts, looks like I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for my first update. But why? I don't understand why I can't get the latest update immediately. I understand then I have to get my safety score to 100 to be granted full access. Can someone lay out the full roadmap for getting on the beta for a new owner like myself (or point me to another post describing it)?

I am on version 2021.31.103 and my car says I am up to date. I understand I will get the next update "3 to 4 weeks" after getting my car. But why do I have to wait for software updates?

*Cracks Knuckles* I apologize in advance for the incoming wall of text...

To start with, you should do as @GlmnAlyAirCar suggests in the quoted text below. I got the quotes out of order, and am too lazy to fix it, but yeah... take any information you get from this site with a large grain of salt. Most all of it is based on observations the Hive Mind here has made along the way, with a sprinkle of information added by Tesla when/if they feel like giving actual information.

According to what I've read here, as well as what a few SC technicians have told me, cars are delivered with what Tesla refers to as "Break in Firmware." This can be identified by the last three digits of the version installed in your car; break in firmware is designated with the ".1xx" version.

Supposedly, there are triggers set by Tesla that will determine when your car will get its first firmware update to the non-break in, public release firmware branch. What those triggers are has yet to be determined. It could be time, mileage, a combination thereof, or the position of the Sun and Venus that decides when your car will get the first update.

From what I've seen, it is a rare instance for guys to get an update within the first two weeks. Sometimes people will report getting an update within hours of delivering their cars, but in most instances, the update is simply an updated version of the break in firmware, with the odd case of receiving main stream firmware also reported.

It is also true that most updates only occur over WiFi, but if the update is deemed important enough by Tesla, they will also push it over the car's built in LTE.

A tech at the Las Vegas SC told me that Tesla uses this break in firmware to monitor certain vehicle systems to make sure that they stay within expected parameters during the car's initial usage. Unfortunately, he didn't have any idea what the trigger was for getting a non-break in firmware, nor would he expand on what parameters are monitored.

IMO (and again, take it with a large grain of salt), if a guy wanted to get his car off of break in firmware fast, he should put as many miles on the car in as many diverse driving situations as possible. But until the triggers are met, you are well and truly stuck on break in firmware, and there's nothing you can do about it, other than just driving the car and waiting for the Update Available message to pop up.

There really is no way to know when your update will come. "3 to 4 weeks" is probably just a average and something not to hang your hat on. On both my cars (below) came with a software update the same day I picked them up. I would say best is to set your option to ADVANCE in the cars settings under Software to hopefully get it sooner. The other thing is to make sure you are on WiFi (strong signal) as much as possible. Software updates generally only download on WiFi. Lastly you can not just do a download like you can with your computer or phone. That is just the way it is and has always been.

That's really good advice, especially keeping your car connected to a good WiFi signal as much as possible.

If that's not an option for you, you can always turn on the WiFi Hotspot on your phone, connect your Tesla to your phone's hotspot, and leave it that way overnight. Might not be an option for you unless you have unlimited free data on your cellphone plan, or at least a dataplan that isn't going to be a wallet breaker if you car downloads an update.

Take any information you get from this site with a large grain of salt.

Yup.

There is a lot of good information on this site, but there's darn near just about as much bad information.

Back on topic for a sec...

Took beta FSD out for a bit of a drive yesterday. Since most all of the stuff it did has already been hashed and re-hashed here, I didn't bother saving any of the recordings I made.

One thing that I think guys might want to be aware of...

If you are on an unpainted road (especially in neighborhoods) and FSD is going to make a left turn, be extra careful; it loves to cut that turn in way too tight, then take off like a shot.

Again, all of the other stuff has been thoroughly discussed at this point, so I'm pretty much done with 10.4. Hopefully we'll get a new toy to play with sometime this weekend.