FSD Beta 10.69

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don't know if this matters at all, but with the weather being colder, my regen bar has several ... in the morning. But when I enable Driver Assist or Advanced Driver Assist, those ... disappear. It must be using friction brakes, since regen is quite limited with 6 or 7 dots.

This is because you don't have emulated regen braking enabled, probably. I think those dots go away if you turn it on (since there would be no point in showing it). You have to have it on, by the way, otherwise you don't see the braking contribution.

I charge my car to only 60% or so, so limited regen is never an issue, at least at current minimum temperatures in San Diego. I double check it from time to time by toggling that setting but it's not an issue right now.

I doubt you will get even 3/10 CULTS if you tried it. I guess his best was 8/10 ?

One reason I've got a bunch of disengagements is the bizarre wheel turning to the left and positioning way to the left in the lane. And then the other reason is it trying to cut off turning traffic even further by advancing and intimidating them. This has happened a couple times. Here's the example I mentioned earlier:

I should loan you my VBOX so we can get to the bottom of this. We need jerk plots!

That thing is so stable! I love using it. /s.

Anyway here's a violent stop from this evening - doesn't take long to find one, haha (look at that regen bar!!!). Unfortunately, it's hard to see really in the video how strong a stop this was and how disturbing the move towards the turn lane and the stop would be for passengers, to be honest. You'll just have to believe me - but I assure you the approach to this turn would have made you proud and would have suited your near binary driving style. Note the delay in the speed display, it clearly lags the regen bar, but this occurs at both ends, so does not affect the results. Peak 10mph window was about 10mph over 47 frames from 51mph to 41mph, 0.3g, but actual peak of course even higher, probably 0.33g at least; I don't have the patience to figure out frame by frame what the actual peak was. But it's really the suddenness with which it came on that is the issue, though the peak is not great for daily driving. People can tolerate 0.33g for a stop (even if it costs you on your insurance premium), but it better roll in smoothly, like you expected to stop that fast.

But just try to get that length of bar duplicated at 50-55mph and then you'll see what I mean.

Sadly I think the inability of video to provide information on actual g-forces readily is the main reason why people watching YouTube videos think FSD is actually ok. You really have to experience it. It'll be "fine" for a while, then it'll do something like this. There have been many times approaching this intersection where it has slowed down in its normal pulsing annoying way, rather than this very strong initial bite (followed by the traditional pulsing you might notice, lol).

 

[X Fan]

In my '18 X/3.0 driving experience today I'd suggest product is not ready for prime time. 4-lane T intersection (2 turn left, 2 turn right or go straight into a shopping center) with vehicle needing to go left to reach destination (I was in 2nd left turn lane), vehicle begins to dramatically go right into empty but not viable turn lane.

Then, was going 45 in a two lane divided road and directions was to turn right into a street and the vehicle made the turn but then accelerated dangerously looking to reach 45 rather than the 25 that the street required. Would have probably hit cars lined up to turn if I hadn't disengaged.

Add to it, inability to slow down for speed bumps (we have several in our community), inability to read traffic gates (gated community) and inability to slow down quickly when speed limits change (big issue in Naples that have varying speed limits) make this a useless product.

I'd add driving in our community we have divided medians with heavy plantings and then non-divided roadway. The vehicle drifts to the middle with non-divided and doesn't always see incoming traffic in the divided plantings sections (another time I had to disengage since it missed the vehicle on the other side).

Worked better on my wife's Y in the Triangle/NC. However, useless in Naples and thus disengaged from beta today.

 

[cbdream99]

Then, was going 45 in a two lane divided road and directions was to turn right into a street and the vehicle made the turn but then accelerated dangerously looking to reach 45 rather than the 25 that the street required. Would have probably hit cars lined up to turn if I hadn't disengaged.

Add to it, inability to slow down for speed bumps (we have several in our community), inability to read traffic gates (gated community) and inability to slow down quickly when speed limits change (big issue in Naples that have varying speed limits) make this a useless product.

This is the same behavior I experienced, the map data is clearly 25 mph after the turn, but it continues with the speed limit traveling before the turn but once it sees the speed limit sign, then it slows down. It's unsafe if some kids suddenly run out esp between cars.

For coming to speed bumps (dips), it won't do anything and just continue. If I am the leading car, I will manually slow down before the bumps and speed up afterward.

 

[VanFriscia]

Just curious - for all of us losers now without a snapshot button, are your vehicles uploading anything to the mothership anymore? Since getting 25.1, mine has uploaded basically nothing...maybe a tiny bit of metadata here and there, but certainly no videos. This is despite a lot of interventions and disengagements, as this particular version happens to perform pretty lousy in my area. If I'm not contributing data, then I'm gonna save myself the frustration.

So, has anybody noticed large uploads lately?

 

[aronth5]

It’s a good question. Based on videos, I believe it is decelerating faster than regen is capable of doing by itself (meaning g forces are greater than they ever would be at a given speed (and slope), under manual control). However, I’d have to study bars of similar stops under manual control (no input) very closely to figure it out.

In addition there is the possibility that FSD can use more regen at a given speed than normal driving, in any case. No idea whether that is true - I think it is of course likely that it can eliminate the “feathering in” that a release of the accelerator will initiate when under manual control. So two slightly different things there.

When I post the video without intervening I guess you can study it.

My belief/guess is it is just requiring too much deceleration and thus using brakes.

When I see that braking component on the screen, it never “feels” good. So that is why I believe that.

With all the other problems FSD has, the extent to which FSD uses or doesn't use regen is pretty much irrelevant in the big picture.

 

[willow_hiller]

So, has anybody noticed large uploads lately?

I've only got records for the last 7 days, but it's been radio silence. Just 4-5 MB per day, which may be some incidental metadata, but definitely not clips:

 

[2101Guy]

Let’s not minimize this. This is measurable as jerk and most people find it unpleasant. And it is visible in the pulsing behavior of the regen bar, particularly on downhill stops, as has been discussed many times.

The discussion will stop when it is fixed. (As have many discussions mostly disappeared - for example, poor performance of Model 3 in the snow, and phantom drain - these problems are largely fixed, so people don’t complain about them nearly as much anymore).

Note that the Tesla drivetrain ***by default*** has a superb regen profile with zero driver input which ensures maximum passenger comfort. It is amazing.

I do love the regen BUT also wish (like some other ev makers) it included the pull lever on the steering column/wheel that let you quickly and temporarily increase regen even more briefly while you hold the lever. Would be handy on a boulevard road as you approach a green light from afar that then turned yellow and you needed to stop more abruptly while still wanting to keep your pricey aftermarket wheels free of brake dust.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

With all the other problems FSD has, the extent to which FSD uses or doesn't use regen is pretty much irrelevant in the big picture.

Apparently you have not seen the videos. This is a huge usability and safety issue, and in fact is one of the primary issues with FSD. Of course there are other major issues as well.

But this is a “fundamentals” issue.

 

[Supcom]

Just curious - for all of us losers now without a snapshot button, are your vehicles uploading anything to the mothership anymore? Since getting 25.1, mine has uploaded basically nothing...maybe a tiny bit of metadata here and there, but certainly no videos. This is despite a lot of interventions and disengagements, as this particular version happens to perform pretty lousy in my area. If I'm not contributing data, then I'm gonna save myself the frustration.

So, has anybody noticed large uploads lately?

Some days yes, some no. I have found no obvious correlation to where I drive or how well the car performs.

 

[Daniel in SD]

would have made you proud and would have suited your near binary driving style.

Braked way too early and with no ABS use. fail.

 

[aronth5]

Apparently you have not seen the videos. This is a huge usability and safety issue, and in fact is one of the primary issues with FSD. Of course there are other major issues as well.

But this is a “fundamentals” issue.

Regen has never been an important factor in any of my drives. Why the fixation on it baffles me. There are many other improvements that are much more important. @AlanSubie4Life- on a scale of 1 to 10 compared to all the other issues were do you rank regen braking so we can put some context to this?

 

[Dewg]

Regen has never been an important factor in any of my drives. Why the fixation on it baffles me. There are many other improvements that are much more important. @AlanSubie4Life- on a scale of 1 to 10 compared to all the other issues were do you rank regen braking so we can put some context to this?

It haunts his dreams, regularly waking him in a cold sweat. He has a swear jar in his car which he fills every time he utters a swear word or the words disengage or intervention. That jar is currently under investigation by the IRS for massive tax evasion. I'm guessing it's high on his list.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

on a scale of 1 to 10 compared to all the other issues were do you rank regen braking so we can put some context to this?

It accounts for a majority of my interventions so I guess about 10? To be absolutely clear, it has nothing to do with regen, of course! That’s just one of the signs. Some people seem to think it has something to do with an obsession with efficiency (don’t understand why they would have that idea), and of course that is not it at all. Efficiency comes for free on EVs - you don’t have to think about it, as you drive around normally and comfortably.

I could see it not being an issue for people who spend most of their time driving at 25-35mph on FSD. Much less of an issue.

 

[nvx1977]

Efficiency comes for free on EVs - you don’t have to think about it, as you drive around normally and comfortably.

I understand. You're looking at it from the comfort/safety perspective, although driving with comfort/safety also gives you the efficiency component for free.

For me, it's been a while where the car has come to an uncomfortable stop while on marked roads. On unmarked roads, all bets are off. Car slams on its brakes in unexpected moments at intersections, often too far away from the stop sign, etc. But on marked roads, I very rarely feel I needed to apologize to passengers for a [non phantom braking] stopping maneuver. Turning, yes; stopping, not so much.

 

[D Good]

With the new arrows in the navigation. I have confirmed that every lane selection error is due to the mislabeling of turning lanes by the map data. The map data is so so bad. In one instance, the middle yellow turning lane for making left turns across traffic, is listed as a RIGHT turning lane. It’s so bad and weird. I’ll take a pic of it next time. The 5 or so other trouble spots have similar issues (turn lanes marked as straight, missing lanes etc.) It seems that the car relies heavily on this data, so it needs to be good. Whatever map data company they use sucks. I can’t find an app on my phone with the same incorrect lane data, so I can’t determine what company it is…

 

[2101Guy]

3:27

Is that due to bad map data?

 

[Joboo7777]

Hey guys, I have 2022.44.30.5 and have been using V10 FSD beta for a few weeks now. Initial impression was positive, I think it was primarily because I had never experienced FSD on city streets before. Now that the “Newness” has worn off I have experience some major issues that have been concerning. In some cases I had to intervene to avoid an accident.

The other day I was at a traffic light waiting to make a left turn. There were 2 left turning lanes and I was in the outside turning lane(one farthest to the right). I was behind 4 other cars waiting to make the left turn. When the light turned green the cars ahead started to move and make the left turn. The car ahead of me at the last minute decided not to turn left and instead switched to the lane to the right on me which continued straight. My car decided to follow this car instead of making the left turn!! Is this normal? I had to manually intervene and even then it was too late and had to continue going straight almost causing an accident. Why would FSD rely on the direction of the car in front of me? Is this normal behavior?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For me, it's been a while where the car has come to an uncomfortable stop while on marked roads.

Typical speeds? I could see cruising around at 35mph not being an issue.

Here the minimum surface street speed for the main routes is 45mph, and 50-55mph is also common in places with less residential access. It really becomes a problem at those speeds as far as I can tell. The standard control loop instability is amplified.

 

[aronth5]

It accounts for a majority of my interventions so I guess about 10? To be absolutely clear, it has nothing to do with regen, of course! That’s just one of the signs. Some people seem to think it has something to do with an obsession with efficiency (don’t understand why they would have that idea), and of course that is not it at all. Efficiency comes for free on EVs - you don’t have to think about it, as you drive around normally and comfortably.

I could see it not being an issue for people who spend most of their time driving at 25-35mph on FSD. Much less of an issue.

So if this problem for you is about a 10 how would rank all the other open FSD issues? Assumption being you can only have a "10" for one item. My top 3 would be. What are yours?

1. Correct Lane selection
2. Stopping too far back from a Stop sign with a very slow creep to the intersection
3. Accelerator pedal needed to make FSD proceed

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So if this problem for you is about a 10 how would rank all the other open FSD issues? Assumption being you can only have a "10" for one item. My top 3 would be. What are yours?

1. Correct Lane selection
2. Stopping too far back from a Stop sign with a very slow creep to the intersection
3. Accelerator pedal needed to make FSD proceed

I guess order of priority without the number ranking would be

2,1,3

Lane selection seems like a non issue as I just tell it what lane I want to be in. Annoying and can fail sometimes but a non issue since you can always prevent it.

Similarly pressing the accelerator is not that big a deal (even less of an issue really; no one has to know about it).

The stop sign thing is like an 8. It’s related to the stopping issues and is a major usability issue.