FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[jebinc]

Saw this on "X" - Thought it was good morning humor!

 

[X Fan]

Saw this on "X" - Thought it was good morning humor!

View attachment 996661

lol--5x had to take over this morning in local driving in non-edge case scenarios.

Highway FSD is good but not perfect product; local driving, the pits.

 

[jebinc]

lol--5x had to take over this morning in local driving in non-edge case scenarios.

Highway FSD is good but not perfect product; local driving, the pits.

Similar experience here. Basic highway L2 is fine/similar to others who have had highway ~L2 for a decade (thinking Subaru "Eyesight," for example).

 

[WilliamG]

There might be reasons beyond raw cost, like parts supply -- without knowing when exactly the wipers went Vision

But like for the ultrasonic sensor removal, I'm still in the school of thought it was necessary to navigate supply chain problems. On the surface it seems like a relatively small cost impact, but vehicles can't be delivered at all if they're sitting in lots waiting for a couple parts.

Pretty good position to be in where you can cut parts and promise some future magical OTA update that will restore functionality

.... and that will never come in the cars we own now.

Just got back from a drive in my neighbor's very dusty 2019 VW eGolf, which she paid $15k for back in 2019 (new) after tax credits and VW trying to clear these out. In retrospect, I wish I'd bought one as a second car, because it was a bargain. The automatic wipers work perfectly. F'in Tesla. Seriously. I paid over 10x as much, and have wipers that work 10x as poorly, and that's being generous to Tesla.

 

[jebinc]

.... and will never come.

Just got back from a drive in my neighbor's very dusty 2019 VW eGolf, which she paid $15k for back in 2019 (new) after tax credits and VW trying to clear these out. In retrospect, I wish I'd bought one as a second car, because it was a bargain. The automatic wipers work perfectly. F'in Tesla. Seriously. I paid over 10x as much, and have wipers that work 10x as poorly, and that's being generous to Tesla.

View attachment 996677

Yeah, so do the ones in my Rivian....

 

[WilliamG]

Yeah, so to the ones in my Rivian....

That must feel so good when it's raining, and you know you're in the right vehicle (aka not a Tesla).

 

[jebinc]

That must feel so good when it's raining, and you know you're in the right vehicle (aka not a Tesla).

It does! We had 3 inches of rain in the last 24 hours and I had the truck out this morning… All perfect.

And it didn’t vibrate like a mofo, either

 

[WilliamG]

It does! We had 3 inches of rain in the last 24 hours and I had the truck out this morning… All perfect.

And it didn’t vibrate like a mofo, either

Yep, here in Seattle it won't stop raining. 29 hours later and we're here (measured at my house). Auto wipers unusable last night (had to set them manually).

 

[jebinc]

Yep, here in Seattle it won't stop raining. 29 hours later and we're here (measured at my house). Auto wipers unusable last night (had to set them manually).

View attachment 996680

Let it rain, let it rain, let it rain… As long as you’re not driving a Tesla…

 

[WilliamG]

Let it rain, let it rain, let it rain… As long as you’re not driving a Tesla…

The funny thing is that FSDj does itself no favors. First, the system is junk, we've established that. And second, without working auto wipers it makes a junk system even more junk, since it was crap before the wipers not working was (re)introduced in 11.4.7. Talk about Tesla self sabotaging...

 

[jebinc]

The funny thing is that FSDj does itself no favors. First, the system is junk, we've established that. And second, without working auto wipers it makes a junk system even more junk, since it was crap before the wipers not working was (re)introduced in 11.4.7. Talk about Tesla self sabotaging...

What FSDj does to the wipers, makes the car junk (in the rain)… wait, even when it’s not raining… due to dry wiping and windshield fine scratching.

 

[X Fan]

That must feel so good when it's raining, and you know you're in the right vehicle (aka not a Tesla).

Well, to be fair, we just drove 800 miles the other day in non-stop rain with tremendous success in our Model X. Like I noted, highway FSD is good, it's local driving which is often challenged. My current Model X is a fantastic vehicle and hands down better than the first 2 I owned. Wouldn't buy any other EV being produced right now (my neighbor in NC has a Rivian and it's been down quite often and without local service the pits to own).

 

[Dewg]

I think it's a vast conspiracy from Tesla to get @WilliamG and @jebinc to sell their Teslas and move on.

 

[WilliamG]

Well, to be fair, we just drove 800 miles the other day in non-stop rain with tremendous success in our Model X. Like I noted, highway FSD is good, it's local driving which is often challenged. My current Model X is a fantastic vehicle and hands down better than the first 2 I owned. Wouldn't buy any other EV being produced right now (my neighbor in NC has a Rivian and it's been down quite often and without local service the pits to own).

Right? And the sad thing is there's no other EV I'd rather have right now, either, which is... well, an indictment of the crap that most other manufacturers are putting out there. Same reason I'd only have a Cybertruck right now (if I needed a truck). No other truck excites me like a Cybertruck does. When you factor in Tesla's shenanigans.., the competition must really be bad if I'd not swap my current car for anything on the market.

I think it's a vast conspiracy from Tesla to get @WilliamG and @jebinc to sell their Teslas and move on.

Haha. The thought did occur to me.

 

[jebinc]

I think it's a vast conspiracy from Tesla to get @WilliamG and @jebinc to sell their Teslas and move on.

Can’t. Bad financial decision - given my Plaid has depreciated over 55%.

 

[EVNow]

Even worst - that collision avoidance is built into the current safety testing so is essentially required to get good safety ratings.

I don't know worse or good .... but here is my position.

It is absolutely atrocious that in 2023 we have cars that will slam into things killing or injuring 10s of thousands of people. It would be possible with current technology to cheaply implement collision avoidance / slowdown. It should be mandatory on all cars. We have to accept some unnecessary slowdowns (false positives) as a collateral damage. Just like we have accepted restraint by seatbelts.

 

[EVNow]

Yep, here in Seattle it won't stop raining. 29 hours later and we're here (measured at my house). Auto wipers unusable last night (had to set them manually).

View attachment 996680

What I have found is - if I press the left stalk (in 3) once - wipers get going and auto wipers mostly work after that (when its raining). Sometimes I just set the speed manually. The dry wipes have no solution, though (when using FSD, which is 99% of the time for me).

 

[jebinc]

What I have found is - if I press the left stalk (in 3) once - wipers get going and auto wipers mostly work after that (when its raining). Sometimes I just set the speed manually. The dry wipes have no solution, though (when using FSD, which is 99% of the time for me).

I don’t have a stalk… the Great Charlatan took it away…

 

[willow_hiller]

I don’t have a stalk… the Great Charlatan took it away…

Latest versions have press and hold on the left wheel button to adjust wiper speed.

 

[jebinc]

Latest versions have press and hold on the left wheel button to adjust wiper speed.

I’ll have to check. I have an early adopter edition Plaid…. Like all Tesla early adopters, I’m probably left out in the cold on this.