FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[powertoold]

require no action of any kind from the person in the drivers seat.

Wow, so not sitting either? I'm amazed by this technology.

 

[JulienW]

Wow, so not sitting either? I'm amazed by this technology.

Yea I don't get it since sitting and waiting is called inaction and the opposite of action.

 

[powertoold]

Yea I don't get it since sitting and waiting is called inaction and the opposite of action.

The car is doing all the actions as it relates to driving. It is supervising the environment, steering, braking, going, navigating, etc. Etc. Etc.

The fact that the driver is also supervising doesn't negate the fact that the car is supervising. Therefore, the car is fully self driving.

Like you said, there can be multiple interpretations of action here.

 

[Gbills]

L3 doesn’t require any action UNLESS “When the feature requests you must drive”. Setting in the driver’s seat and being prepared is NOT an action. An action is preforming a task and NOT waiting to do a task. If it is “able to” drive and doesn’t “request” then no action is required by you. You can play video games, read a book or watch a move and “You are not driving…” or taking ANY actions related to driving.

Prepared takes some action. If you are reading a book or playing a game you have to get prepared again to take another action if request.

 

[JulienW]

The car is doing all the actions as it relates to driving. It is supervising the environment, steering, braking, going, navigating, etc. Etc. Etc.

The fact that the driver is also supervising doesn't negate the fact that the car is supervising. Therefore, the car is fully self driving.

L3 doesn't require "supervision". It only requires "When the feature requests you must drive. That is just being prepared to drive if needed.

 

[Knightshade]

That is just being prepared to drive if needed.

Preparation is an action.

The exhaustive effort you two keep putting into being wrong about this is truly spectacular.

 

[JulienW]

Prepared takes some action. If you are reading a book or playing a game you have to get prepared again to take another action if request.

What actions are you taking to prepare? You are just setting there. It's not like you need to read a book and study how to drive before the car asks. You don't do anything but sit there and that is not an action.

 

[JulienW]

Preparation is an action.

View attachment 894292


The exhaustive effort you two keep putting into being wrong about this is truly spectacular.

Again you DON'T need to do any process to prepared. You ARE prepared. The action of preparation was taken a long time ago when you learned how to drive. No new action required to prepare to drive.

You never get in you car and sit for a few minutes preparing to drive. You just do it.

 

[powertoold]

I don't know why we're arguing about single word meanings out of context.

It is very clear there can be multiple interpretations of "action." The description doesn't refer to the SAE definitions. End of story.

 

[JulienW]

I don't know why we're arguing about single word meanings out of context.

It is very clear there can be multiple interpretations of "action." The description doesn't refer to the SAE definitions. End of story.

True, but the point is no one can not say objectively that Tesla promised L4 since Tesla could easily make the same argument I have.

 

[Gbills]

What actions are you taking to prepare? You are just setting there. It's not like you need to read a book and study how to drive before the car asks. You don't do anything but sit there and that is not an action.

Wether you do it out of habit or you go mentally through the steps it is still an action. That’s what we are discussing (action)

 

[Knightshade]

True, but the point is no one can not say objectively that Tesla promised L4 since Tesla could easily make the same argument I have.

Except your argument is terrible and would be laughed out of a courtroom.

So there's that.

I showed you the literal dictionary saying you're wrong, and you're still arguing anyway.

 

[Gbills]

Yes, and your premise is wrong. That's what I've been trying to say.

You started with a false premise: that the description directly references the SAE levels.

Then you ran with that false premise.

You keep posting and referencing that SUMMARY chart of the SAE levels, but the levels are much more complicated than that summary chart. If it were that simple, they wouldn't need the 30-page definition document.

Tesla's description is like 2 paragraphs with no reference to the SAE defintion, and then you say it's plain english that it's level 4, and when I ask you if it's plain english, then why does the SAE require 30 pages to define and clarify what the levels mean? You go back to "it's plain english though!" This is all because you started with a false premise.

State your premise!

 

[GhostMY]

This is a blog about V11, no?

As an attorney who prides himself in the art of bantering the minutiae of the English language, I found that exchange to be exhausting! Phew!

 

[JulienW]

This is a blog about V11, no?

As an attorney who prides himself in the art of bantering the minutiae of the English language, I found that exchange to be exhausting! Phew!

Unfortunately if V11's over year long history of imminent release is a guide we will just get another "two weeks" Tweet soon. Although one of these times Elon is going to be right.

 

[jeremymc7]

When are they going to do a reset on the disabled warnings. We saw it reset, what only once so far; plus the extension from 3 to 5.

Some of us have been on beta since basically the beginning and it would be nice to see another reset.

Honestly since they rolled out to everyone who wanted it at this point everyone else should have been cleared when doing the full rollout.

Ugh maybe not until v11 actually hits and the steering wheel nag is supposedly removed.

 

[N00bMaster69]

I’m really hoping for the nag to be removed too. But honestly I can see government stepping in before it’s even released. Thought I saw a headline somewhere they are already possibly looking into his tweet.

 

[tmoz]

Take the disagreement offline please. If you come to an agreement, then please let us know the final outcome.

(moderator note: I feel like a magic genie. What could possibly go wrong with this.)

 

[N00bMaster69]

To add to that, I don’t really like getting into conspiracy theories, butttt. I find it funny that Ford has been out with a driver assist system that solely relies on eye tracking but the minute Tesla mentions they’d do the same, NHTSA decides to look into it. Just saying.

 

[momo3605]

To add to that, I don’t really like getting into conspiracy theories, butttt. I find it funny that Ford has been out with a driver assist system that solely relies on eye tracking but the minute Tesla mentions they’d do the same, NHTSA decides to look into it. Just saying.

Elon didn’t say it would be done with eye-tracking. Just that he agreed with the no-nag sentiment from wholeMars. I’m sure NHTSA as part of “looking into it” was probably like…wait, with eye tracking right??

Companies like Ford and GM have been very clear with their driver assist features and its hands-free capabilities using IR cameras. Tesla has yet to make any clear plans as to what no steering wheel nags means.