FSD Beta v11.x

gsmith123 · Mar 30, 2023

Personally I think if you're intentionally following so close that it's impossible for another car to cut in front of you, you're probably following too closely to begin with. Most cars on the highway are following too close.

What's the reason to prevent anyone else from changing lanes? I don't get it. Presumably that person needs to change lanes, so you're just making it harder for them to do that.

Dennisis · Mar 30, 2023

gsmith123 said:
Personally I think if you're intentionally following so close that it's impossible for another car to cut in front of you, you're probably following too closely to begin with. Most cars on the highway are following too close.

What's the reason to prevent anyone else from changing lanes? I don't get it. Presumably that person needs to change lanes, so you're just making it harder for them to do that.

I’m talking about traffic is slowed and I’m not at set speed and waiting for traffic to clear so we can all get up to speed. Except I’m stuck too far back so people get frustrated behind me and zip around me just to fill the gap! They don’t need to change lanes they just want me to keep up with the cars ahead and if I won’t do it they will. Not talking anything malicious here.
When people actually get the update and try it you’ll see what I mean. If you don’t have it yet your comments carry little weight, just speculation.

Mardak · Mar 30, 2023

willow_hiller said:
Probably the first time it's gone wide to the public outside of NA

Looks like Autopilot team was happy enough with FSD Beta 11.x's Occupancy Network for USS-less vehicles to basically fully roll out 2023.6.9 to Model 3/Ys. TeslaFi is showing 900 installs with 226 pending with most coming from 2023.6.8 and 2023.2.12, and of the 2023 3/Ys on those versions, there's 158 and 132 respectively.

Hopefully this means with that priority taken care of, 11.x to existing fleet is closer to the top. Although restoring Park Assist to HW4 vehicles could be higher priority?

AlanSubie4Life · Mar 30, 2023

Dennisis said:
I’m talking about traffic is slowed and I’m not at set speed and waiting for traffic to clear so we can all get up to speed. Except I’m stuck too far back so people get frustrated behind me and zip around me just to fill the gap! They don’t need to change lanes they just want me to keep up with the cars ahead and if I won’t do it they will. Not talking anything malicious here

This is a totally different problem, quite separate from the following distance at speed.

Current AP (not v11) has a lot of issues with promptly closing gaps, and also follows slightly too closely. Worst of both worlds really!

Sounds like to some extent that sluggishness persists. I guess eventually we’ll see.

Mardak · Mar 30, 2023

willow_hiller said:
Whatever network is responsible for placing orange cones and trash cans in the scene is definitely not running on the FSDb stack

Yeah, those trash cans and cones (and "fire hydrants"

) are probably coming from Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview from long ago. Even 10.x's Occupancy Network gray blob visualizations were pretty accurate but haven't been updated in 11.3 so far.

Traffic lights were also introduced with the Preview, and 11.x might have switched over to FSD Beta's stack with the blue highlighting of traffic lights. At least with 10.x, there's been some angled intersections where the old Preview incorrectly showed a bright green light, but FSD Beta knew to ignore it, so I'll make sure to check if the new blue highlights reflects the correct understanding.

Preview also includes painted road markings, e.g., turn arrows, bike lanes, RailRoad Xings and handicap parking spots, as well as various other things like bollards/delineators, but unclear if Tesla would actually want to carry over all of these visualizations.

Dennisis · Mar 30, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
This is a totally different problem, quite separate from the following distance at speed.

Current AP (not v11) has a lot of issues with promptly closing gaps, and also follows slightly too closely. Worst of both worlds really!

Sounds like to some extent that sluggishness persists. I guess eventually we’ll see.

Yes thought there must be a communication gap. In my scenario I’m in the left lane behind others and we’re trying to get up to speed past slowed traffic in the right lane(s). As in, my speed is set at 80 but the lane is going 65. My car is sitting way back with a line behind me, all trying to get past trucks/campers/trailers going 60 on the right. As we slowly make progress those behind me are saying “why is this jerk in the fast lane leisurely hanging back?!”. So one by one they go around me ASAP. I either a) accelerate manually to keep up with traffic or b) move over behind a semi and let the others pass, though in fact they’re still going 10 mph under the speed limit in the fast lane while I’m 15 under. And still hanging back because left to it’s own devices my car leaves too large of a gap. Not talking a desire to ride people’s bumper at all costs here, just want the software to allow me a reasonable following distance.

Mardak · Mar 30, 2023

ArchHamster said:
it feels like we are close to getting some kind of summon and autopark overhaul

If I recall correctly, camera-based Autopark started rolling out back in August 2021 before any of us could even get FSD Beta with Safety Score. This allowed parking between painted lines instead of requiring Ultrasonic Sensors detect a gap between two cars. Indeed FSD Beta 11.x's stack seems plenty capable in doing the detection needed for basic Autopark and basic Summon although I don't think we've seen FSD Beta control the car with extended reversing yet?

Expanding from basic to finally get "park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself" as well as "actually smart summon" both implemented with Tesla Vision seems like it's almost there with existing 11.x ability to drive through parking lots. There's some stuff that isn't even visualized like parking spots, but FSD Beta knows not to just drive through them as if the road was really wide. But maybe Tesla will want to apply the same level of polish that they've done for FSD Beta single stack on highways but now focused on parking lots?

Mikeisnomech · Mar 31, 2023

Looks like FSDb v11.3.4 which Musk said was needed is starting to roll, assuming its Release 2022.45.13 which would be logical

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641698908475736064

GlmnAlyAirCar · Mar 31, 2023

jebinc said:
Maybe, but perhaps it is as it appears to be, as well…

I have been running a software development team for most of my career of 30+ years, and there are many issues that would be relatively easy to address, but never rise high enough in the queue to address. Every day in the engineering world is a game of prioritization, balancing market, regulatory demands, the need to maintain the architecture, and burning down technical debt.

I think the problem is visibility. We, as the users, don't know if issues we consider important are even acknowledged, much less addressed, by the software group. I certainly wouldn't suggest making their entire backlog publicly visible, but having some mechanism for submitting issues and getting feedback would go a long way to addressing our concerns.

nvx1977 · Mar 31, 2023

Ramphex said:
Check out this pic I took today at Sun N Fun.

View attachment 923295

Oh I recognize that. That's the scene where Maverick in his P-51 Mustang takes out two F-22 Raptors. It's not the plane; it's the pilot.

uscbucsfan · Mar 31, 2023

gsmith123 said:
Personally I think if you're intentionally following so close that it's impossible for another car to cut in front of you, you're probably following too closely to begin with. Most cars on the highway are following too close.

What's the reason to prevent anyone else from changing lanes? I don't get it. Presumably that person needs to change lanes, so you're just making it harder for them to do that.

You are free to your opinion, but as you stated MOST cars follow what you consider to be "too close".

I, and obviously many others, would like to follow closer. The previous radar "1" was close to perfect. It was far enough back to where I wasn't riding someone's bumper, but didn't have a 2-3 car whole in front of me.

People are passing you in the right lane and squeezing in front of you for a multitude of reasons:
1. They were passing people in the right lane and now are hindered and need to get over to continue driving faster than the rate of traffic.
2. You are going too slow in the lane you are in.
3. Traffic incidents.

FSD and NoA creates the perception of 2, even with a follow distance of 2. Probably the biggest complaint I hear about Tesla drivers is that "they drive too damn slow in the left lane". I'm convinced this is mostly AP/NoA (now FSD)…especially all of those I see say they use "7" on the interstate and claim it's still way too close.

People expect you to keep up with the car in front of you and if that feels unsafe or uncomfortable, they expect you to get out of the left lane. Of course you don't have to agree with them or appease them, but in their eyes you are being just as inconsiderate as you think they are by tailgating or aggressively passing on the right.

aronth5 · Mar 31, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
People expect you to keep up with the car in front of you and if that feels unsafe or uncomfortable, they expect you to get out of the left lane. Of course you don't have to agree with them or appease them, but in their eyes you are being just as inconsiderate as you think they are by tailgating or aggressively passing on the right.

It doesn't help that V11.3.3 doesn't move out of the passing lane on it's own like it used to. At least that is my experience. Maybe V11.3.4 will correct that.

uscbucsfan · Mar 31, 2023

aronth5 said:
It doesn't help that V11.3.3 doesn't move out of the passing lane on it's own like it used to. At least that is my experience. Maybe V11.3.4 will correct that.

Agreed. Tesla has programmed FSD Beta to think if you are going over the speed limit, you need to be in the faster lane.

It makes sense on paper or to those who choose not to speed, but it's not practical in real life situations...I hate it.

uscbucsfan · Mar 31, 2023

I wonder if those that are so anal against passing in the right lane have mini panic attacks when cars pass and then get in front of them...I still find it odd that people think the car shouldn't be allowed to do that...I just don't understand the logic...if there's a slow car in the left lane you're just ****ed?

JB47394 · Mar 31, 2023

EVNow said:
Its not easy

I'll pile onto this as well.

Tesla has another dimension of problem solving here, which is that nobody has ever built one of these things before. Not at the scale that Tesla is attempting. They not only have to figure out how to solve autonomy, but they also have to build all the development and testing infrastructure for that solution. Because it's essentially a research project where they're learning as they go, they're building infrastructure for a moving target. And on top of that, they're attempting their own hardware to accelerate the process.

FSD is almost a side effect of the full project. It's one of those "tip of the iceberg" things. FSD serves to focus their efforts, but they have so much infrastructure to work on, so many research problems to solve that it surprises me that they can make any progress on the product itself. That's ignoring the practical problems of legal requirements, safety constraints, changes in the hardware platform, and so forth. Even then I'm probably missing some large items that consume large amounts of their attention.

JB47394 · Mar 31, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
It makes sense on paper [...], but it's not practical in real life situations

Many times I have thought that the guys on the FSD team don't actually drive cars because we keep seeing academic treatment of problems that result in dumb behavior by the car - such as travelling in the left lane, drifting to the outside of a lane on a curve, and so forth. But, like I just posted, they may simply have other fish to fry and declare each solution "functional for now".

Has anyone had problems with 11.3.3 doing that "opposite lane" thing where it'll cross multiple lanes away from a coming turn? I haven't seen it at all.

rlsd · Mar 31, 2023

Ramphex said:
Check out this pic I took today at Sun N Fun.

View attachment 923295

Are they using FSF (full self flying)?

Dennisis · Mar 31, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
Agreed. Tesla has programmed FSD Beta to think if you are going over the speed limit, you need to be in the faster lane.

It makes sense on paper or to those who choose not to speed, but it's not practical in real life situations...I hate it.

Yes, I tried letting it do its thing, thinking it would move to the right at some point - in the end just signaled manually to force it.

nvx1977 · Mar 31, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
You are free to your opinion, but as you stated MOST cars follow what you consider to be "too close".

I, and obviously many others, would like to follow closer. The previous radar "1" was close to perfect. It was far enough back to where I wasn't riding someone's bumper, but didn't have a 2-3 car whole in front of me.

People are passing you in the right lane and squeezing in front of you for a multitude of reasons:
1. They were passing people in the right lane and now are hindered and need to get over to continue driving faster than the rate of traffic.
2. You are going too slow in the lane you are in.
3. Traffic incidents.

FSD and NoA creates the perception of 2, even with a follow distance of 2. Probably the biggest complaint I hear about Tesla drivers is that "they drive too damn slow in the left lane". I'm convinced this is mostly AP/NoA (now FSD)…especially all of those I see say they use "7" on the interstate and claim it's still way too close.

People expect you to keep up with the car in front of you and if that feels unsafe or uncomfortable, they expect you to get out of the left lane. Of course you don't have to agree with them or appease them, but in their eyes you are being just as inconsiderate as you think they are by tailgating or aggressively passing on the right.

@AlanSubie4Life would be appalled at your following distance choice. I'm with you though. in my area, you have to use the lowest following distance. And even at a "1" setting, there will be a stream of people constantly cutting me off, and the people behind me get pissed because I'm slowing down the lane. There's such a wide range of driving cultures, and I'm glad Tesla is trying to account for all of them with that follow setting.

rlsd · Mar 31, 2023

Mikeisnomech said:
Looks like FSDb v11.3.4 which Musk said was needed is starting to roll, assuming its Release 2022.45.13 which would be logical

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641698908475736064

Too early. Not April yet.

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