FSD Beta v11.x

PACEMD · May 5, 2023

JHCCAZ said:
Be careful friend, you are creating an unsolvable paradox! If and when we vouch for FSD, that very act will make us shills, right?

Then we'll be outside the non-shill Circle of Trust...

outside the non-shill Circle of Trust... we call that off the COT.......as in........Joe? He's off the cot.........not a good place to be........

PACEMD · May 5, 2023

EVNow said:
I can't speak for others.

Then you're not a true TMC member, are you?

ArchHamster · May 5, 2023

How we doing tesla bros? We still on 11.3.6, did 11.4 get taken out back and put to rest while no one was looking?

Does it feel like Tesla hit the ignore button on the 'minimal lane change settings for this drive' FSDb setting? I enable this setting every drive. On 11.3.3 I only needed to intervene around bad drivers or on merging off the interstate/highway with FSDb (the NoA portion, back streets is another story), but with 11.3.6 I'm getting soooo many incorrect lane changes, like within 0.5 miles under heavy traffic, away from the lane I'm supposed to be in for the upcoming merge/turn. It's now the most disengagments I've ever had while using any version of FSD, which is saying a lot. If it was listening to this settings, it shouldn't be doing these lane changes at all. Something got more junky is FSDb. I guess Tesla is scared of success.

jebinc said:
Definitely “seems” like refreshed MS owners are more aligned on FSD(j) being more junk than say Model 3/Y users. The later also enjoy better visualizations than the…

[Picture of FSDb]

… we get on the tiny “behind the wheel” display. Hat’s off to the Charlatan to sucking us into thinking we purchased the “Flagship” of the brand…

EVNow said:
I think we should seriously consider the possibility that refreshed S/X do not work as well as 3/Y

Yes, can I get in on this fun!

My first Tesla was a Y and I was so impressed with it, my next car I opted for it's bigger sibling, the X. Sure the X has slightly better materials, a faster infotainment computer (steam games are a bit fun when it's not crashing your car and you are stuck waiting to pick someone up) a gorgeous big windshield, and fun automatic doors, but everything else feels like a prototype y, forgotten by Tesla.

Like Tesla forgot about the X so much that they can't stop updating the software to have notifications cover the side view cameras, which I use extensively for blind spot monitoring (in addition to the old fashioned way). It's so, so frustrating. Oh you disengaged Autopilot because it's very imperfect? Here's a MASSIVE notification to block your side view cameras for 30 seconds asking you to submit a bug report. Oh a passenger unbuckled their seat belts for a moment to get more comfortable while rearranging their clothes??? That's dangerous, you know what would make this situation more dangerous???? Covering your side view mirrors! f yeah, good job Tesla team. Aced it again. I'm not even going to mention the annoying migraine that are phone calls

As you guys stated, the FSD visualization is laughably useless in the X/S, I much prefer the visualization in my Y, and the UI feels better laid out. The X feels like it's just a slightly modded 3/y UI and that's really what it is. The don't even testrun new UI updates on these cars and it's obvious. You guys think the coming model 3 highlander is going to get the center screen of the s/x and possibly a better driver screen? I think so.

Last pet peeve, for now, the back of the Y is another level above the X. Like the trunk area specifically. You have more subtrunk in the Y even with a 5 seat config, you get two side wells instead of just the one in an X, and you get a divider separating the upper subtrunk from the lower subtrunk, so upper subtrunk doesn't accelerate into the lower subtrunk. You get seat fold down (why not fold back up and front seats auto moving functionality too?) buttons in the back of the Y. Most frustratingly, the floor feels like it can hold more weight, it feels more sturdy in the Y than the X.

I think it's no question that Tesla forgot about the interiors of these cars, they feel strangely 'last gen.' I mean the manual even has inaccuracies for the s/x. It says you can keep the low voltage sockets powered by leaving on sentry mode after leaving the car which isn't true. They only stay powered in camp mode. I told Tesla Service about the incorrect manual and their response can predictably summed up as 'lul.' It doesn't surprise me a bit that FSD doesn't work as well on an s/x vs a 3/y. I'd test, but my Y has radar without the radar removing update. I'm not ready to get rid of the reliability that is Tesla radar on my Y yet. When I first got the X, Y def had better FSD/AP.... but that may be due to the radar. Dunno. Hilarious they are adding radar back with hw4. I'm laughing so I don't cry.

powertoold · May 5, 2023

ArchHamster said:
with 11.3.6 I'm getting soooo many incorrect lane changes, like within 0.5 miles under heavy traffic, away from the lane I'm supposed to be in for the upcoming merge/turn.

We can only hope this is reduced in 11.4.

I also get this sort of thing on certain roads. It would change back and forth lol. I have to cancel it by tapping the lane signal stalk.

jebinc · May 5, 2023

The Great Charlatan, spinning his web of deception!

@WilliamG @Ramphex

Rikster · May 5, 2023

I am an admittedly very impatient driver, and drive fairly aggressively, so most of the time if I'm in my normal hurry, FSDb drives me nuts with it's slow driving and indecision. I normally intervene constantly simply because the car is going too slow or not shooting around other slower drivers the way I normally do.

However, I had to drive my son to a friend's house across town tonight, and on the way back I decided to just take some deep breaths and just let FSDb do it's thing just to see how well it can actually drive when I'm not in a hurry at all.

The drive was only about 6 miles, and it was mostly in-town driving with lots of stoplights and some right and left turns (left turns had green arrows, so not unprotected lefts). I purposely kept my head looking straight ahead the whole time, and kept my hands in my lap, ready to intervene if necessary, but not torquing the yoke in any way.

The drive lasted a total of 14 minutes, and I'm happy (but surprised) to report that the car drove flawlessly with almost no input from me whatsoever. I didn't "goose" the go pedal once, or force a lane change using the turn signals. I drove for roughly 3-4 minutes between each nag, and ended up only having to jiggle the yoke a total of 4 times in the 14-minute drive (keeping my head straight ahead and my eyes on the road really reduced the nags).

The traffic was admittedly fairly light on this drive, but I ended up pretty impressed by how little interaction I had to provide to the car to drive 6 miles across town.

I know we are a LONG way from Robo-Taxi-land, but I am encouraged that we on a path to owning one hell of an awesome driver aid, and I'm excited to see what v11.4 and all subsequent versions bring by way of improvements to the overall comfort and safety.

EVNow · May 5, 2023

WilliamG said:
@EVNow isn't able to (personal reasons), but the offer is open to anyone in the Seattle area who claims FSD "works" well enough to drive them around. Waiting for crickets, @jebinc .

Well just came back from a drive. I'll upload the two private videos from the drive and send you, @Ramphex and @jebinc links. Drives are obviously far from perfect - but works as very useful ADAS for me. You will see multiple instances where others may have disengaged - but I've learnt not to ...

EVNow · May 5, 2023

PACEMD said:
Then you're not a true TMC member, are you?

We can't all be true members !

powertoold · May 5, 2023

Does this north Seattle drive count?

jebinc · May 5, 2023

Somebody not in a Model 3/Y - post a video of a flawless (or at least decent) FSD(j) drive. I can’t imagine there are many of you that could…

@WilliamG @Ramphex

jebinc · May 5, 2023

EVNow said:
Well just came back from a drive. I'll upload the two private videos from the drive and send you, @Ramphex and @jebinc links. Drives are obviously far from perfect - but works as very useful ADAS for me. You will see multiple instances where others may have disengaged - but I've learnt not to ...

No need, no thanks. I don’t doubt you have learned to accept FSDj in a model 3. Looking for some non model 3/Y datapoints.

D Good · May 5, 2023

As long as FSD can’t properly merge onto the highway, NoA is (was) a superior product. Yes I know that FSD is better in every other capacity, but half the point of NoA was that it could merge and take interchanges. FSD sucks bad bad at this. Why did they release it in this state? Don’t hit me with the”iT’s zIPpEr mErgInG” crap. No, it just sucks. It’s not even using a turn signal. It’s freaking out humans who have no idea what my car is doing. Heck, the car doesn’t even try to “find space” before it awkwardly moves over into the other lane. Why! Why is it so bad. It’s like one of the easiest parts of driving for a computer to solve. Wait. They did have it solved.

aronth5 · May 6, 2023

D Good said:
As long as FSD can’t properly merge onto the highway, NoA is (was) a superior product. Yes I know that FSD is better in every other capacity, but half the point of NoA was that it could merge and take interchanges. FSD sucks bad bad at this. Why did they release it in this state? Don’t hit me with the”iT’s zIPpEr mErgInG” crap. No, it just sucks. It’s not even using a turn signal. It’s freaking out humans who have no idea what my car is doing. Heck, the car doesn’t even try to “find space” before it awkwardly moves over into the other lane. Why! Why is it so bad. It’s like one of the easiest parts of driving for a computer to solve. Wait. They did have it solved.

Ok, I'll refrain from the who zip merging crap but to say NoA had it solved is just not true at least for me. Pre V11 I often disengaged especially for merges during rush hour. I'd say merging was lousy before and lousy now.

Rikster · May 6, 2023

jebinc said:
Somebody not in a Model 3/Y - post a video of a flawless (or at least decent) FSD(j) drive. I can’t imagine there are many of you that could…

@WilliamG @Ramphex

I have a 2022 MSLR, and have many drives which are pretty much intervention-free (if I had the patience to let the car do it's thing, slowly and cautiously).

I tend to mostly intervene when I'm impatient and want to quickly change lanes and zip around slower traffic. However, I do have spots on my commute that FSDb fails on every time, and I do disengage before those spots knowing the system will fail. But for the most part, when I'm not in a hurry I do really enjoy letting FSDb do it's thing.

I have one smallish roundabout on my commute, and FSDb does slow down more than I would before entering it. But once it commits, it's very smooth and totally acceptable.

I had my first successful unprotected left on a 4-way highway the other day using FSDb. Traffic was medium volume, and my car waited until it was clear from the left, and then smoothly moved out to the center spot near the center island and waited there until the traffic was clear from the right. I was very carefully monitoring this whole thing, but was impressed that my car managed it well (similar to the Chuck Cook UPL).

LowlyOilBurner · May 6, 2023

aronth5 said:
Ok, I'll refrain from the who zip merging crap but to say NoA had it solved is just not true at least for me. Pre V11 I often disengaged especially for merges during rush hour. I'd say merging was lousy before and lousy now.

Yep, same here. Regarding the zipper merge, I’d say 98-99% of folks around here do not merge into traffic this way. You merge as soon as possible. I remember waaaay back to Drivers Ed, this is what they taught us, and what my father taught me as well.

This holds true on city streets too. If it’s a four lane road with turn lanes at intersections, we were always taught to be in the lane closest to the turn lane for that given upcoming turn. If it’s a right turn ahead, stay in the right lane, even if it’s slower (unless the right turn is 4miles ahead, than you have time to pass slower moving traffic and move back into the right lane). It’s just less stressful I think.

I’ll tell you what is stressful:
Being in the far right lane on a four lane road, with an upcoming left turn that you have to get into a turn lane for, and have 0.1miles to make that move in moderate traffic. It’s beyond frustrating, and doesn’t work 90% of the time. And when it does, it positions the car so damn awkwardly in that left turn lane, it’s ridiculous.

SeattleFSD · May 6, 2023

WilliamG said:
@EVNow isn't able to (personal reasons), but the offer is open to anyone in the Seattle area who claims FSD "works" well enough to drive them around. Waiting for crickets, @jebinc .

I'm having a good time driving around Seattle. In fact, I find FSD easier to use than following this thread

But I'm old (not quite a boomer

) and haven't used forums much in decades. So, if I understand correctly - y'all looking to do a comparison of Tesla models with FSD beta on v.11.3.6 to compare how the models differ? I'm not sure why that's interesting but happy to join in on the fun!

I post my experiences to youtube.com/@FSDSeattle and am best engaged with their but will do my best to respond here if I can work it out!

jebinc · May 6, 2023

SeattleFSD said:
I'm having a good time driving around Seattle. In fact, I find FSD easier to use than following this thread

But I'm old (not quite a boomer ) and haven't used forums much in decades. So, if I understand correctly - y'all looking to do a comparison of Tesla models with FSD beta on v.11.3.6 to compare how the models differ? I'm not sure why that's interesting but happy to join in on the fun!

I post my experiences to youtube.com/@FSDSeattle and am best engaged with their but will do my best to respond here if I can work it out!

@WilliamG

SeattleFSD · May 6, 2023

Rikster said:
I have a 2022 MSLR, and have many drives which are pretty much intervention-free (if I had the patience to let the car do it's thing, slowly and cautiously).

I tend to mostly intervene when I'm impatient and want to quickly change lanes and zip around slower traffic. However, I do have spots on my commute that FSDb fails on every time, and I do disengage before those spots knowing the system will fail. But for the most part, when I'm not in a hurry I do really enjoy letting FSDb do it's thing.

I have one smallish roundabout on my commute, and FSDb does slow down more than I would before entering it. But once it commits, it's very smooth and totally acceptable.

I had my first successful unprotected left on a 4-way highway the other day using FSDb. Traffic was medium volume, and my car waited until it was clear from the left, and then smoothly moved out to the center spot near the center island and waited there until the traffic was clear from the right. I was very carefully monitoring this whole thing, but was impressed that my car managed it well (similar to the Chuck Cook UPL).

Sounds like my experience = Model 3 Standard on v11.3.6. I've stopped caring how it handles roundabouts. It just re-routes. But I'm not a backseat driver (means, I'm not the guy in the back of an Uber, telling the driver how to drive and what route to take).

Also - to be clear - this is beta software. I DO NOT expect it to be smooth, error free or robotaxi-ready. I expect the software to fail and it's my role to takeover and then report the issue.

pg3ttt · May 6, 2023

I use FSD ~95% of the time here in rural, NW Wisconsin. I began using it in 2020 and can testify to many improvements, but the two-lane highway, WI35, has many deceleration lanes for making right turns and my Y makes so many lane changes into them that I sometimes avoid using FSD on my most common drive. Yesterday, while on my usual drive, I had FSD engaged and was driving exactly the limit (55mph) and did not notice the tailgater when my Y moved into a deceleration lane that it usually ignores. Now I was doing 55 in the deceleration lane with the tailgater on my left and the end of the deceleration lane coming up fast. I was able to hit the brakes and turn right without incident. I usually anticipate the error and disengage in advance so as not to go through an intersection with my turn signals sending misinformation, but I am becoming less confidant in using FSD for my usual drive.

SeattleFSD · May 6, 2023

D Good said:
As long as FSD can’t properly merge onto the highway, NoA is (was) a superior product. Yes I know that FSD is better in every other capacity, but half the point of NoA was that it could merge and take interchanges. FSD sucks bad bad at this. Why did they release it in this state? Don’t hit me with the”iT’s zIPpEr mErgInG” crap. No, it just sucks. It’s not even using a turn signal. It’s freaking out humans who have no idea what my car is doing. Heck, the car doesn’t even try to “find space” before it awkwardly moves over into the other lane. Why! Why is it so bad. It’s like one of the easiest parts of driving for a computer to solve. Wait. They did have it solved.

Sorry to read you're having a bad experience. As for scenarios the software could handle pre-single stack vs post, Elon did clearly tell us all - expect two steps back. That's Elon talk - so for me, I interpret that as expect it to fail the majority of the time.

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