FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[EVNow]

But what does that mean for those of us now who spent up to $15k? My point is that Tesla is never going to deliver what customers would describe as a workable product to those of us in the here and now.

I can't speak for others. But I've got a lot more than my money's worth - I paid $5K (IIRC) - seeing the development over the years is a nerd's dream

I would be very interested in doing a back-to-back comparison with your car versus my car, and maybe have @jebinc join, too. Then we can have three cars, run an identical route, and see how each car behaves.

Wish I could do that. May be someone else in the area with 3/Y will join you two ...

 

[Dewg]

I’ll be the one in a lawn chair, watching, and eating popcorn

If you don't participate, then I don't want to hear it anymore from you.

 

[Dewg]

I can't speak for others. But I've got a lot more than my money's worth - I paid $5K (IIRC) - seeing the development over the years is a nerd's dream


Wish I could do that. May be someone else in the area with 3/Y will join you two ...

Why can't you do that? Make it happen.

 

[EVNow]

Why can't you do that? Make it happen.

Unfortunately ...

Chances of me coming over to West Seattle in the near future is limited (taking care of family healthcare issues).

 

[WilliamG]

Unfortunately ...

I will drive to you.

 

[EVNow]

I will drive to you.

See IM.

 

[WilliamG]

@EVNow isn't able to (personal reasons), but the offer is open to anyone in the Seattle area who claims FSD "works" well enough to drive them around. Waiting for crickets, @jebinc .

 

[jebinc]

@EVNow isn't able to (personal reasons), but the offer is open to anyone in the Seattle area who claims FSD "works" well enough to drive them around. Waiting for crickets, @jebinc .

 

[EVNow]

Definitely “seems” like refreshed MS owners are more aligned on FSD(j) being more junk than say Model 3/Y users.

I think we should seriously consider the possibility that refreshed S/X do not work as well as 3/Y. Seems plausible - given yoke/wheel difference - as well as larger size, most of the data is from 3/Y etc.

 

[Dewg]

@EVNow isn't able to (personal reasons), but the offer is open to anyone in the Seattle area who claims FSD "works" well enough to drive them around. Waiting for crickets, @jebinc .

The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. I hope someone takes you up on your offer. Otherwise all this pointless bickering is just:

 

[jebinc]

I think we should seriously consider the possibility that refreshed S/X do not work as well as 3/Y. Seems plausible - given yoke/wheel difference - as well as larger size, most of the data is from 3/Y etc.

I would agree, there is a stronger correlation with that hypothesis than the more emotional “learning curve” one. I’m certain you wouldn’t be singing the FSD praises, if you owned and drove my refreshed MSP.

 

[jebinc]

The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. I hope someone takes you up on your offer. Otherwise all this pointless bickering is just:

I think the bickerers are past bickering, as there are more “facts and data” on the forum table.

 

[EVNow]

I would agree, there is a stronger correlation with that hypothesis than the more emotional “learning curve” one. I’m certain you wouldn’t be singing the FSD praises, if you owned and drove my refreshed MSP.

I think learning curve is still relevant for people with 3/Y who say they have vastly different experiences. BTW, not saying thats the only reason - obviously the location & traffic conditions play a role.

Let me give another example.

When FSD comes to a small roundabout - it can't figure out the path quickly. So, even when empty, it stops. I used to disengage - but just to see what would happen, I let it proceed once. It stoped, waited for a couple of seconds and then correctly drove around after figuring out the path. So now I disengage if someone is behind, otherwise I let it takes its time. Similarly I've figured out when I can let it drive and when I've to disengage at different roundabouts where I drive. That is what I mean by learning curve.

 

[jebinc]

I think learning curve is still relevant for people with 3/Y who say they have vastly different experiences. BTW, not saying thats the only reason - obviously the location & traffic conditions play a role.

Let me give another example.

When FSD comes to a small roundabout - it can't figure out the path quickly. So, even when empty, it stops. I used to disengage - but just to see what would happen, I let it proceed once. It stoped, waited for a couple of seconds and then correctly drove around after figuring out the path. So now I disengage if someone is behind, otherwise I let it takes its time. Similarly I've figured out when I can let it drive and when I've to disengage at different roundabouts where I drive. That is what I mean by learning curve.

Yes, it hems and haws with roundabouts, but also enters abruptly when the roundabout is busy. Like, cut someone off abruptly. I just don’t trust it at all. Nothing (good, bad or ugly) is repeatable - therefore, I turned this shite off altogether.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I will drive to you.

I have not read this thread for quite a few days... When did it turn into Tinder?

 

[boonedocks]

I also drive the refreshed S.... Perhaps you are noticing a trend?

I think the yoke helps on the highway with nags (more comfortable to maintain torque), but less so in city...

Oddly enough and (wrongly enough) I get less nags on the Highway not holding the yoke at all.

Just slightly moving it when I see the “hold yoke” message.

A lot less nags in fact than trying to hold a slight torque on the yoke all the time.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Yeh - roundabouts continue to be bad. I usually disengage unless there is nobody behind / in the roundabout.

Did you think they were better on 10.69.X? Myself, I thought they were better on 10.69. I’ve had way more issues with them on 11.X.X.

Construction also seemed to be better handled on previous builds for me as well. 11.3.6 is so confused in construction it’s unusable.

 

[Ramphex]

Let me know when this happens, I won’t bring my car, for obvious reasons, but I’ll burn some points and fly over there for funsies

 

[kabin]

Oddly enough and (wrongly enough) I get less nags on the Highway not holding the yoke at all.

I'm yokeless and don't drive freeways often but one time I was hands-off the wheel for a long stretch and nag-less. However I haven't been able to duplicate it since so maybe the driver observation function was running in the weeds? I tried it daytime, without sun glasses, and good eye-road contact to no avail. It's just another quirky FSD mystery.

 

[jebinc]

I'm yokeless and don't drive freeways often but one time I was hands-off the wheel for a long stretch and nag-less. However I haven't been able to duplicate it since so maybe the driver observation function was running in the weeds? I tried it daytime, without sun glasses, and good eye-road contact to no avail. It's just another quirky FSD mystery.

Another interesting psychological phenomenon…