FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Mardak]

New release notes for FSD Beta v11.4.8:

- Introduced a new efficient video module to the vehicle detection, semantics, velocity, and attributes networks that allowed for increased performance at lower latency

I wonder why not just call it 11.5 with the introduction of new architectural changes. Totally speculating, but training a new 11.x network even with end-to-end coming "soon" could de-risk some things for 12.x especially if this video module is being used in the next major release and/or Tesla is evaluating if Dojo is ready by re-training the known stable 11.x network.

Similar to how 11.0 single stack initial release was delayed many times, various architectural changes needed for highway driving were introduced in 10.x including the special 10.69.

 

[sleepydoc]

I wonder why not just call it 11.5 with the introduction of new architectural changes. Totally speculating, but training a new 11.x network even with end-to-end coming "soon" could de-risk some things for 12.x especially if this video module is being used in the next major release and/or Tesla is evaluating if Dojo is ready by re-training the known stable 11.x network.

Similar to how 11.0 single stack initial release was delayed many times, various architectural changes needed for highway driving were introduced in 10.x including the special 10.69.

Don’t forget, “lane selection improved by 7.43%” in the release notes.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I wonder why not just call it 11.5 with the introduction of new architectural changes.

Perhaps to avoid setting expectations too high.

Another possibility is that there could be some internal guidelines for what constitutes a major release versus a minor one.

Totally speculating, but training a new 11.x network even with end-to-end coming "soon" could de-risk some things for 12.x especially if this video module is being used in the next major release and/or Tesla is evaluating if Dojo is ready by re-training the known stable 11.x network.

Agreed, this would be a sensible strategy.

Similar to how 11.0 single stack initial release was delayed many times, various architectural changes needed for highway driving were introduced in 10.x including the special 10.69.

There may be a hope for v12 to be introduced in the 2023 holiday update, with the backup plan being a non e2e v11.5 if they can't get there. As you say, this is total speculation.

 

[Supcom]

There may be a hope for v12 to be introduced in the 2023 holiday update, with the backup plan being a non e2e v11.5 if they can't get there. As you say, this is total speculation.

There isn't enough time to push V12 out with the holiday update. There are no reports of V12 rolling out to employee cars yet, so it will still be at least 2 weeks months before it will even begin to go out to us ordinary testers.

It's also possible that V12 has a long way to go and is certainly not guaranteed to pan out. So, continuing V11 is good risk reduction.

 

[jebinc]

Got a Notification from Stats of a new Software 23.27.10. Could this be 11.4.8? If so we still stay behind (nothing new about that).

View attachment 991446

BOHICA!

 

[jebinc]

There isn't enough time to push V12 out with the holiday update. There are no reports of V12 rolling out to employee cars yet, so it will still be at least 2 weeks months before it will even begin to go out to us ordinary testers.

It's also possible that V12 has a long way to go and is certainly not guaranteed to pan out. So, continuing V11 is good risk reduction.

It will going out with the holiday update…. the 2025 holiday update, that is.

 

[rlsd]

There isn't enough time to push V12 out with the holiday update. There are no reports of V12 rolling out to employee cars yet, so it will still be at least 2 weeks months before it will even begin to go out to us ordinary testers.

It's also possible that V12 has a long way to go and is certainly not guaranteed to pan out. So, continuing V11 is good risk reduction.

V12 is too boring to use. I prefer to tame V11.

 

[TK211X]

If it’s worth anything, my vehicle is on 23.32.9/11.4.4 and I have yet to receive any of the recent updates. Could mean that 11.4.8 will be on 23.44.XX hopefully.

 

[JulienW]

Looks like 23.27.10/11.4.8 is DBR (dead before release) [no surprise of course] and 23.27.11 with probably 11.4.8.1 is now in internal testing.

 

[sleepydoc]

There isn't enough time to push V12 out with the holiday update. There are no reports of V12 rolling out to employee cars yet, so it will still be at least 2 weeks months before it will even begin to go out to us ordinary testers.

It's also possible that V12 has a long way to go and is certainly not guaranteed to pan out. So, continuing V11 is good risk reduction.

Elon said ‘2 weeks’ about a week ago so that means it should be out in 7 weeks, right? Just in time for Christmas!

I tend to agree. At this point, it’s not likely that we’ll see v12 prior to the new year. It’s hard to say exactly how much rewriting they are doing, but it sounds like it’s fairly significant and that tells me there are a lot of potential bugs to quash.

 

[willow_hiller]

V11.4.8 rolling out to employees now as 2023.27.11

https://twitter.com/x/status/1725751745178194115

 

[jebinc]

Looks like 23.27.10/11.4.8 is DBR (dead before release) [no surprise of course] and 23.27.11 with probably 11.4.8.1 is now in internal testing.

View attachment 991740

And does this surprise anyone? Junk production has hit full stride at this point!

 

[kabin]

Yea, why v11.4.8 and not 11.5? I wouldn't be surprised if the new video module was a necessary feature for v12 and coincidentally could be easily ported into v11. Maybe v11.5 is being used for E2E HW3 development.

 

[D Good]

Yea, why v11.4.8 and not 11.5? I wouldn't be surprised if the new video module was a necessary feature for v12 and coincidentally could be easily ported into v11. Maybe v11.5 is being used for E2E HW3 development.

Because 11.4.7 is already a thing that the OG beta testers are on.

 

[aronth5]

And does this surprise anyone? Junk production has hit full stride at this point!

Nope. Not until 11.4.4 (HW4) users also get the most recent production build is FSD in it's full stride.
Good chance that will be after V12 is released to the 11.4.8 group.

 

[aronth5]

V11.4.8 rolling out to employees now as 2023.27.11

https://twitter.com/x/status/1725751745178194115

Does anyone now think that Elon's 2 week post regarding V12 was anything other than a joke to Omar? Unfortunately, some people took Elon seriously.

 

[sleepydoc]

Unfortunately, some people took Elon seriously.

who?

 

[cbdream99]

who?

Elongate is always stretching

 

[jebinc]

Does anyone now think that Elon's 2 week post regarding V12 was anything other than a joke to Omar? Unfortunately, some people took Elon seriously.

And “that” is on them!

 

[tivoboy]

Does anyone now think that Elon's 2 week post regarding V12 was anything other than a joke to Omar? Unfortunately, some people took Elon seriously.

As usual with Elon it MAY be true in some small sense or limited case. It COULD be that CT will ship with v12. And if that is the case one COULD consider it a release. Even though it sounds like that a) it might only be 10 internal employee cars shipped and b) that it’s not coming to legacy FSD cars for quite a bit longer. Just a thought.