FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta

[Knightshade]

Hello Mr. Level 4, how are you doing? haha Level 4 because you can drive in "almost all circumstances". Since according to you stating "almost all circumstances" is the literal definition of level 4. Three people are telling you , you are wrong, have you understood the memo yet?

The actual quoted text of the SAE definitions tell you I'm right.

If you wanna go with "what a couple randos on the internet who have been wrong the entire thread so far think" over the SAE for definitions, you do you my man.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Once you guys get this sorted out maybe you can tackle how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[Daniel in SD]

From the man himself (3:31:45). Level 5 no geofence!
The beta seems close enough to Level 5 for most purposes (after they finish software validation). Maybe it will end up technically being Level 4 but I still think Level 5 is the goal.

 

[DanCar]

The actual quoted text of the SAE definitions tell you I'm right.

If you wanna go with "what a couple randos on the internet who have been wrong the entire thread so far think" over the SAE for definitions, you do you my man.

Feel free to quote SAE. We are both saying that level 5 means:

... that it is not operationally limited to a specific operational design domain and can rather operate on-road anywhere that a typically skilled human driver can reasonably operate a conventional vehicle. ...

Where we disagree is that, you interpret something saying "almost all circumstances" as literal definition of level 4, where am I'm saying that is not the case. Search the doc, you won't find that literal term being used to define level 4.

The actual text of SAE says you are wrong. If you want to go with a single rando that has been consistently wrong, dense, mentions SAE definitions but doesn't quote it, then go for it.

 

[Knightshade]

Feel free to quote SAE. We are both saying that level 5 means:

Where we disagree is that, you interpret something saying "almost all circumstances" as literal definition of level 4, where am I'm saying that is not the case. .

If we agree that "all circumstances" where a human can drive is L5, then anything saying "almost all circumstances" is by definition less than L5.

We know it's more than 3, because of the rest of Teslas own description in that it won't require anything of the person in the drivers seat... (L3 specifically DOES require the person in the drivers seat to be ready and aware of enough to take over on a short, but not instant, notice).

L4 is the only one left that fits Teslas own description. Can self drive in almost (but not) all circumstances, and doesn't require anything of the person in the drivers seat.


If you wanna keep personally attacking someone for citing you being wrong over and over go ahead.

My advice would be for you to just stop being wrong, but that doesn't seem likely.

 

[DanCar]

If we agree that "all circumstances" where a human can drive is L5, then anything saying "almost all circumstances" is by definition less than L5.

Can L5 drive in "almost all circumstances"? Are their circumstances that L5 can't drive in?
> "almost all circumstances" is by definition less than L5.
No. If it were to say almost all circumstances that a human can drive, then that would be correct.
"almost all circumstances" by itself without human driver comparison, can be interpreted the same as L5 since L5 can almost drive in all circumstances. L5 is not expected to be able to drive where a skilled driver is not able to drive, such as very icy roads.
Given that Elon has stated several times "Level 5", it should be interpreted in that context.

As @drtimhill kindly pointed out, "almost all circumstances" is ambiguous as to whether it means L4 or L5 and to say it is the literal definition of L4 is incorrect without a further qualifer as to how it compares to a human driver. You seem to have made the assumption that the statement is in reference to other drivers, were as we have not made that assumption.

 

[GZDongles]

Having lived through the Great HD/non HD Maps Debate of 2020 on this very thread, would it be possible for everyone to drop the "does Tesla really mean L5?" argument or take it to another thread?

It's nice having one consolidated place to hear the latest news about progress on the FSD beta, but having to slog through 20 pages bickering about definitions of SAE levels and HD maps makes it borderline unreadable.

 

[Knightshade]

Can L5 drive in "almost all circumstances"? Are their circumstances that L5 can't drive in?
> "almost all circumstances" is by definition less than L5.
No. If it were to say almost all circumstances that a human can drive, then that would be correct.

Are you under the impression L5 allows cars to fly, such that they can drive over oceans a human can't or something?

Or to drive along lake bottoms where humans are unable?

You have to keep reaching for increasingly ridiculous ways to avoid admitting you're wrong it seems.

"almost all circumstances" by itself without human driver comparison, can be interpreted the same as L5 since L5 can almost drive in all circumstances.

Again this is fundamentally wrong.

L5 is expected to be able to drive in all circumstances a human can.

Period full stop.

"almost all circumstances" means "less than L5"


Unless again we instead come up with ridiculous cases where NOBODY, including a human, can drive in the first place.

Which would be a really weird disclaimer for a car.

It's not like when they released a winter tire package they felt the need to add 'Excludes winter on mars since it drops to -195F at the poles there"

 

[RyanF]

Having lived through the Great HD/non HD Maps Debate of 2020 on this very thread, would it be possible for everyone to drop the "does Tesla really mean L5?" argument or take it to another thread?

It's nice having one consolidated place to hear the latest news about progress on the FSD beta, but having to slog through 20 pages bickering about definitions of SAE levels and HD maps makes it borderline unreadable.

I agree. This thread has turned into absolute garbage. I just want to when more people are getting it and if it’s improving with updates.

 

[diplomat33]

Here is a nice screenshot I found on Twitter from "DirtyTesla" that shows the latest FSD UI changes:

I like that Tesla is maximizing the space for the FSD visualization, not just in making the area wider but also by pushing icons to the top of the screen. Also the "D" when you are in drive turns blue when you are in FSD mode.

https://twitter.com/brandonee916/status/1329155318685679622

 

[Knightshade]

I like that Tesla is maximizing the space for the FSD visualization, not just in making the area wider but also by pushing icons to the top of the screen. Also the "D" when you are in drive turns blue when you are in FSD mode.

https://twitter.com/brandonee916/status/1329155318685679622

Agreed.

The bigger/better FSD visualization on the beta previously was the only time I was ever jealous of S/X owners having a behind-the-wheel screen- this goes a decent way toward correcting that.

 

[powertoold]

I don't understand why they still use white lane lines on top of the off-white background.

 

[DanCar]

Hopefully Model X and Y will get the big UI treatment also. Transfer the FSD visualizations to the 17 inch screen.

 

[yerEVan]

I feel I’m stuck in an endless For ... Next loop with this Pee Pee match going on.

Get a (level 5) Room!

 

[eli_]

I don't understand why they still use white lane lines on top of the off-white background.

Testers should set their display to Night mode so it looks right.

 

[n.one.one]

Testers should set their display to Night mode so it looks right.

That's what I used to think. One of the testers tried it and it caused sunlight reflection during the day. I'll try to find the video and add a link.
Edit: Here is the video where he tests night mode during the day (at about 1:45).

 

[GZDongles]

Here is a nice screenshot I found on Twitter from "DirtyTesla" that shows the latest FSD UI changes:

I like that Tesla is maximizing the space for the FSD visualization, not just in making the area wider but also by pushing icons to the top of the screen. Also the "D" when you are in drive turns blue when you are in FSD mode.

https://twitter.com/brandonee916/status/1329155318685679622

I think having more space for the FSD visualization makes absolute sense for the beta. Hopefully it's shrunk back to normal size when this rolls out to the broader fleet.

It's a case where the visualization looks cool, but in normal operation won't provide THAT much incremental information to the driver. It's useful now to give comfort to testers that the car is picking up other vehicles and objects like it should, but if the perception is sufficiently advanced to roll it out to all FSD users then that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[MP3Mike]

I think having more space for the FSD visualization makes absolute sense for the beta. Hopefully it's shrunk back to normal size when this rolls out to the broader fleet.

It's a case where the visualization looks cool, but in normal operation won't provide THAT much incremental information to the driver. It's useful now to give comfort to testers that the car is picking up other vehicles and objects like it should, but if the perception is sufficiently advanced to roll it out to all FSD users then that shouldn't be an issue.

It is currently an option, so if you don't want it wider you can just turn off the wider view.

 

[GZDongles]

It is currently an option, so if you don't want it wider you can just turn off the wider view.

Oh I didn't know that! That's actually a great solution.

 

[Snuffysasa]

Do we think the holiday release will have the FSD beta?

twitter.com/elonmu...