FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[FSDtester#1]

What excuse did they give you at the Store? Did you tell them it was supposed to come with 24.3.x/12.3.x?

Also what are you on? 24.2.100?

EDIT: Just for reference the FSDBeta email hasn't been active or likely monitored in well over a year.

Ummm, are you sure about that?, I emailed them 2 weeks ago asking for no nags.
They delivered.

Here was their response dated 3/16/24:

Hello,



Thank you for emailing [email protected]. We appreciate your participation and feedback; all feature related feedback will be forwarded to the appropriate engineering team. If any additional information is needed, we will reach out directly.


Our engineering teams are working hard at constantly improving Tesla vehicles. If you have any other concerns, please schedule a service appointment through your Tesla mobile app.


FSD Beta is now available to all eligible vehicles.


Thank you,

Tesla

 

[uscbucsfan]

Ummm, are you sure about that?, I emailed them 2 weeks ago asking for no nags.
They delivered.

Here was their response dated 3/16/24:

Hello,



Thank you for emailing [email protected]. We appreciate your participation and feedback; all feature related feedback will be forwarded to the appropriate engineering team. If any additional information is needed, we will reach out directly.


Our engineering teams are working hard at constantly improving Tesla vehicles. If you have any other concerns, please schedule a service appointment through your Tesla mobile app.


FSD Beta is now available to all eligible vehicles.


Thank you,

Tesla

That's the same automated blackhole message for the last 2 years.

 

[enemji]

*sigh* yes, you’ve said that before and others have pointed out that other laws actually reference the SAE standards.

The SAE does not write laws, but those who write the laws reference them so SAE standards do become codified. That’s actually what you want - the lawmakers let the experts do what they do best and then reference them. It’s really not hard to understand unless you want to be obtuse and excessively pedantic to avoid admitting you’re wrong.

In any case, pointing out that someone is wrong is not bullying, it’s simply telling the truth, and it’s more than a bit ironic to claim everyone else is insane when you flail in the face of rationality.

Sigh…. I already *had* acknowledged that I had missed the CA gov document and the Tesla support document. Post that, there was NO NEED to hand me a shovel to empathizing me to dig my own grave. *sigh* people are just so intent on bullying

 

[tivoboy]

I wish Tesla has a way for us to identify the GPS location where the car is parked as a favorite location instead of using street address. I want to use that as work location so that my car go to that spot instead of wandering around the parking lots for multiple buildings.

There is.. just press on the map, drop a PIN, save as favorite (or home I think) and that is a LON/LAT coordinate.. but even then it’s not accurate enough to park in a tight garage or confidently in the same place in a driveway.

A SLIGHTLY more precise way to do this is to actually do it in google maps, zoomed in and with sat view. Then, drop that pin in google maps.. then SHARE that location with your tesla, and then save that as a favourite.

 

[FSDtester#1]

That's the same automated blackhole message for the last 2 years.

I couldn't give you a thumbs down, since I reserve those for only extreme responses, and people who I hit ignore 2 seconds after the thumbs down.
So, Booooo to you!
Keep the hope alive... be a believer man, come on!!!
There could be some Tesla employee in Northern Alaska reading those...

 

[kabin]

Why choose an arbitrary MTBF of 125,000 for your analysis? I would think (and I don't make these decisions) that it would never be touted as safer until it can offer a much higher MTBF. So it seems this is kind of moot?

I suspect the idea is to scale the miles up for 1 accident. But I agree that 125k miles isn't good enough.

 

[Dewg]

Could you imagine if everyone uses FSD when it's pushed for that free month?

It's very doubtful that many will use it. The vast majority of people will just ignore the pop-up. Most people aren't like us (those on TMC). They buy the car and MAYBE go through the settings menu, but most don't even do that.

I've had two guys in my company that bought MXs, and both didn't even know their cars had hydraulic suspension they could control. One guy even had FSD Beta, but never enabled it - he just used TACC and thought that was cool.

 

[kabin]

Interesting video from Chuck on V12.3.1. In a scenario where pulling up to the V11-projected creep line would actually cause more occlusion than it would solve, V12 seemed to pick the point to which it creeped based on the context of the scene. He's speculating that this kind of occlusion-aware navigation is emergent behavior from the network.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773401606349885526

Hard to know if that was intended or just coincidental.

 

[Dewg]

I wont take anyone's word for anything.

I can understand the incredulity, but what makes you accept the human figures you quoted? Does everyone here think that every human reports every accident that happens? Or are the stats only for "bad accidents" that require police involvement (official reports)?

 

[sleepydoc]

Indeed, but it was a case of giving the official seal to something that was the de facto standard anyway. Quite apart from the more user-friendly connector (my mom would NEVER be able to lift that bulky CCS connector), Tesla had something every EV maker wanted access to .. the massive supercharger network. The SAE was more or less pressured by those makers into the J3400 standard, making CCS dead in North America.

Tesla opened up their connector, allowing other manufacturers to use it. The better form factor as well as the larger charging network meant it was an easy choice for automakers. The standard was also issued 6-7 months after Tesla created the open standard and only 1 month after Ford announced it would switch (and before other automakers did.) I would argue that the SAE took the rational step of issuing the standard rather than saying they were pressured.

 

[sleepydoc]

No, don’t leave, I’ll be lonely.

wait.. are you another V11 intruder?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Post that, there was NO NEED to hand me a shovel to empathizing me to dig my own grave.

Pretty sure it had nothing to do with graves.

Law of holes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[sleepydoc]

Agreed it's a waste; I'm guessing it's because the car is trying to park and you disengage prior to that task completing. I let it park a couple of times, because it was cool to see it do that instead of just stopping in the street. Now it's just a waste of time, delaying me getting into the garage.

Previous versions would not give a notice if you were within a certain distance of the destination but that meant it there was a disengagement close to the destination they would never know about it. I ignore the notice now but it does give you the opportunity to report these disengagement. Also, if they're interested in expanding parking lot capabilities they need to have this data.

 

[FSDtester#1]

That's the same automated blackhole message for the last 2 years.

Okay, here was their real response:

Hello to our favorite Global Tester,



Thank you for emailing [email protected]. We appreciate your participation and feedback; all feature related feedback will be forwarded to the appropriate engineering team. If any additional information is needed, we will reach out directly.

We have pushed God Mode or Elon Mode to your vehicle.
Thanks for being awesome. You really are #1 to us!

Do us a favor and tell @j0shm1lls that unfortunately, we don't trust or like him.
He isn’t getting any updates for a year.

Also ask @Pdubs to take it easy on some of the in car activities, we have a cabin camera and are watching.

Let @Ramphex know we have listened to all his junk comments he sent to us, and have surmised he might be suffering from Napoleon Syndrome.

Last, but not least, let @AlanSubie4Life know that we have gone to great lengths to hire 1 engineer to program his white Model Y to have the worst performance based on anything he sends us via recording. So basically the more he tells us, the more we increase that annoying ego behavior. Also advise him not to let anyone else use fsd inside his car or the car will probably kill them.

Thank you Mr. Wonderful!

Tesla

 

[lzolman]

No, there is zero data. Nothing has been published. It’s very frustrating! (Tesla does continue on occasion to publish statistics with obvious massive selection bias.)

OK, thanks. I guess I was gullible then to Tesla's claims that using FSD is safer. I still believe that it is, marginally, but I'd sure prefer to see statistics than rely on my less-than-infallible intuition.

 

[sleepydoc]

There are 2 really big issues with FSD approaching human levels of driving. I think they are both fatal flaws.

1. Even if its actually only half as good as the average human, (so twice as dangerous), it will still crash only once every 125,000 miles. At that point, to the end user, it will be indistinguishable from a perfect driver. Threads like this will cease to exist. Most of us could wear out 2 different Teslas and never crash, and the only evidence that it was still 2x as dangerous would be buried in boring safety statistics published by alphabet soup regulators. Day to day it will feel exactly the same as perfection, yet it will be killing twice as many people as AVERAGE drivers.

2. "FSD" as a supervised driving aide has a paradox that to me is a deal killer. The assumption is that it will not be perfect, but it will help more than it hurts, and we just need to be prepared to take over if it makes a mistake.
How do we as driver monitoring determine in that split second that the slamming on the brakes is either
1) a legit action to prevent a crash from a threat we didn't see (exactly the value we are supposed to get from it)
or

2) a mistake that FSD is making that I need to over ride so I don't cause a crash? I have to have better than FSD situational awareness at all times, which negates any value FSD could logically provide.

I submit that FSD needs to be better than the best human driver ever to even be a good ADAS system.

So you dont' use adaptive cruise control, either?

 

[lzolman]

Sigh…. I already *had* acknowledged that I had missed the CA gov document and the Tesla support document. Post that, there was NO NEED to hand me a shovel to empathizing me to dig my own grave. *sigh* people are just so intent on bullying

It may be more a matter of, "If I don't reply to this now I'll never find it again because I've got umpteen pages of posts to catch up on..."

 

[sleepydoc]

Huh interesting... I just sent an update request for work and home. YOUR MOVE GOOGLE.

I just sent an update changing your home address to the strip club down the street!

 

[MP3Mike]

Yeah. To be clear, as long as my car works at 3rd-party NACS DC chargers with the Tesla connector without needing a charge port update, I am not complaining, and I would agree Tesla won, by adopting CCS protocol. Otherwise, I would have to say my car has been left in the past because it uses the obseleted Tesla-proprietary standard. It’s not clear to me what will happen (it would make no sense to not support older Teslas, since Tesla does). I would hate to plan a trip using a remote NACS charger as the only option and not be able to use it!

It is very clear that you will need the $350 retrofit, which includes the $250 CCS adapter, to be able to use 3rd-party NACS DC chargers. (Newer version of the firmware changed the additional information screen from CCS to "CCS and third-party NACS DC fast charging".) Interesting that the Cybertruck only says "third-party NACS DC fast charging", it doesn't include CCS. (Maybe because Tesla doesn't make a CCS adapter that is compatible with the Cybertruck yet, or maybe they aren't planning on making one.)

Note: There is no change to your charge port, just the ECU is swapped out with a different one.

 

[OxBrew]

So you dont' use adaptive cruise control, either?

Actually no, not since 8/2023 when it got it's PB mojo back.

(a bit here and there just to test it, repeatedly failing in the same ways)