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Plenty of people have concurred with my assessment of the stopping behavior, right down to the specifics of the issue. Just read the posts.
And you can happily commiserate with that group while others with unicorn cars, like me, trot along with our excellent L2 assist. Took me from my UTC San Diego office all the way to my driveway in OC this afternoon with only one disengagement because I didn't want it to take the exit on the freeway that was in the route. Once past that exit, reengaged.

You're disappointed with it, and I really enjoy it, and that's the end of that.
 
I've had 1 car behind me get frustrated by the slow crawl that they drive around me and cut in front me rather dangerously. That happened 1 time but I've had cars abruptly change lanes (without trying to cut back in front me), so it's clearly annoying at least some drivers.
Sure, the Alan's of the world. ;) But then again, I see people dangerously weave in and out through traffic all the time, and often end up catching up to them a stop light or two down the road. That has nothing to do with FSD.
 
I'm near the end of the free trial and noticed that, at least on the display, when a car goes out of sight of all the cameras, it disappears. For example, if multiple lanes of traffic are crossing in front of me, when a car is hidden by a closer car, it disappears, then reappears later.

If that's what the FSD system is using for inputs, it seems to me to be very problematical. Just because you can't see a car doesn't mean you shouldn't take it's likely track into account when deciding what to do.
I noticed this 3 years ago and thought the same thing at first.
Then I realized that if the car can't see it, then it doesn't matter. The main objective is to navigate your driving habits based on what you can see on what is the best way to react or handle a situation. When the cars in front disappear from the display, they mostly also disappear from Your view. So what's the difference? Why care about what some car is doing 8 cars ahead when the one in front of you is the one that matters most.
If you can't see it, the car can't see it. The car is looking 360 degrees at all times and never gets distracted.
Can you do that? I can't....
 
And you can happily commiserate with that group while others with unicorn cars, like me, trot along with our excellent L2 assist. Took me from my UTC San Diego office all the way to my driveway in OC this afternoon with only one disengagement because I didn't want it to take the exit on the freeway that was in the route. Once past that exit, reengaged.

You're disappointed with it, and I really enjoy it, and that's the end of that.
My great FSD experiences are because I am driving a Unicorn??? Not S3XY enough.... Batmobile....


Edit for @sleepydoc : BatPlaid mobile Model S
 
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And you can happily commiserate with that group while others with unicorn cars, like me, trot along with our excellent L2 assist.

Seriously. I've stopped counting miles per intervention and started counting days per intervention. Makes me wonder what's so special about my car/location in suburban Maryland.
 
Short answer: Yes

Long answer, to give more context to Stop's response:



In some states it's perfectly legal to be in the intersection when the light turns red, as long as your front tires are over the line (meaning you're technically in the intersection). In other states you cannot be in the intersection when the light turns red. In some states yellow lights are only 2 seconds long, and in other states they can be 3 or 4 seconds long.
Thank you. So far, the instances I have experienced caused maximum, "stand-on-the-brakes" stops while the yellow was very fresh....even making it difficult for the car to fully stop before the crosswalk. In one case two cars behind me in the next lanes passes safely through the intersection. Had they been behind me, I am sure there would have been an accident. So new calibration is surely required.
 
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I don’t like to be embarrassed. I do think the type of roads matter a lot.

I have high standards for a driver assist. It has to be spectacularly good. Nothing less will do.

I don’t want to slow anyone down at any time when I am driving.

Yes this is a big problem. As everyone has said, stops and intersections take a long time. It makes no sense and infuriates other drivers (I have never tested this).

Plenty of people have concurred with my assessment of the stopping behavior, right down to the specifics of the issue. Just read the posts.

Do you believe FSD can achieve L3 even with hardware limitations? I do and that is all I ever expected when I purchased FSD.
L3 would be a game changer and while not L4/L5 would make my investment well worth it. Will Tesla implement L3 I think so which I didn't before.

As far as posts for slowing down I just listen to others I know and nobody complains any longer about this problem. Did they complain before absolutely but not any longer. I'm not saying it never happens but it's so minor I don't care.
 
Seriously. I've stopped counting miles per intervention and started counting days per intervention. Makes me wonder what's so special about my car/location in suburban Maryland.
I assume you actually mean disengagements not interventions.
A lot is how patient you are and whether you'e prone to disengage or not. Over time many of us decide most disengagements aren't necessary once you understand how FSD behaves.
 
Intervention is where you interact with the system ( pressing brakes or accelerator or turning the wheel) for a situation unrelated to safety . Thinks like, ‘this is not the correct exit, the car is waiting for too long at this Xn’.

Disengagement is where you take control because you think you will end up in an accident if you let FSD continue to drive.
 
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I don’t like to be embarrassed. I do think the type of roads matter a lot.

I have high standards for a driver assist. It has to be spectacularly good. Nothing less will do.

I don’t want to slow anyone down at any time when I am driving.

Yes this is a big problem. As everyone has said, stops and intersections take a long time. It makes no sense and infuriates other drivers (I have never tested this).

Plenty of people have concurred with my assessment of the stopping behavior, right down to the specifics of the issue. Just read the posts.
Nobody, and I mean nobody around me has been irritated, and honked at me at any intersections stop signs and traffic lights.

You need to move away from where you live. Looks like it has a huge population of a certain culture who are extremely impatient.
 
Thing is, with @AlanSubie4Life, is that with one notable exception, he's been banging on the drum of, "It's all BS! It'll never be anything but BS!", for a long, long time now.

I kind of vaguely understood his point when we were all meandering around with 10.x; clearly, 10.x was barely acceptable as a test load, with 10 interventions (or more!) per mile. But the point wasn't that the load was horrible: It's that we were collectively sending data back to Tesla so it could become less horrible over time.

And, while there were fits and starts in the progression of updates with regressions from time to time, there's absolutely no question that the software did improve. The intervention rate, as nebulous and probabilistic as it was, was trending downwards and the occasional 10 mile drive without an intervention would pop up from time to time.

The 11.x series of releases were an eye opener. First, the limited access highway (LAH) versions of this software got seriously good; in fact, people use this stuff now and rack up serious interstate miles sans problems. The City Streets, with the occasional regression, also improved, to the point where a random drive somewhere had about a 50-50 chance of not requiring an intervention. Seriously better than the 10.x releases.

While @AlanSubie4Life did properly criticize the failings of the 10.x and 11.x branches and, yup, there're many of those failings, his "It's all BS! It'll never be anything but BS!" analysis of what FSD was doing never changed. I had begun to get the impression that, no matter how good FSD got, if it didn't drive exactly the way Alan wanted it to drive, then it was back to full roar "It's All BS!"

And then we got 12.x releases. Something weird happened. For almost a week, Alan actually said good things about the software. I just about fell off my chair.

I'm a-telling you: I use FSD(S) all the blinking time. Yep, I do intervene - but, out of, I dunno, ten drives, I might only end up intervening twice, maybe three times. And I'm talking drives from three miles to fifty. I've seen 12.3.6 respond to hand signals, politely let cars turn in front of it, and, when another car pauses to allow the car room to turn, FSD(S) has taken that turn. It's acting humanish, and that's new.

There's this point I've made over time: "Is the software ready for Ma and Pa Sixpack?" On 10.anything or 11.anything, I'd've definitely said no. On 12.x..

Right now, there's two close friends, both of whom have bought Model Y's in the last eight months, one of whom is the type one has to lead down the garden path on anything technical, the other being somewhat self starting, but no expert of self driving cars. Both of them love the software and use it. Um. One of them is a Ma Sixpack, the other's not far from it, and they're using the driver assist software the way it should be used. One of them has definitely paid for the FSDS and plans to keep using it.

So.. what happened with Alan? Looking at his current set of comments and evaluations: It's as if nothing has changed in three years. The, "It's All BS!" rant.. sounds old. And has no sense of proportion, or the changes that have been wrought in the last three years, and especially in the last six.

Frankly, while I'd like to see a newer version of FSDS, just like the rest of you, there are the repetitive statements from Tesla principals that they are Very Much going for Safety. I have the distinct impression that they are going for a Ma and Pa Sixpack target. In that case, the lack of new-every-two-weeks releases that we'd all like to see isn't a failure: It's a desire to Get It Right This Time.

We'll see. But I'm expecting great things from the company.
 
Zero intervention drive from home to work. Not the first time. I drove onto the street and activated FSD. All surface streets. A couple of notable moments. There was a car was slow leaving the road way turning right into a driveway. The car didn't do any panic maneuvers. It barely slowed down, moved slightly left and passed. I considered stopping or pulling harder left, but I felt that we would clear the car safely, so I didn't intervene. It's not exactly how I would have done but it, but it was fine. The other interesting maneuver was for "full" left turn lane. FSDb chose to use the additional space afforded by the center turning lane to join the queue. Exactly what I would have done. Better than the car in front of us which had part of its tail hanging in the lane next to the turn lane. Disengaged at the end to pull into my driveway.

Three intervention drive to work. Two were on the freeway (the "V11" stack).

First one was to signal right to "help" the car take freeway to freeway "exit". Without this assist, the car will likely fail to make the maneuver. I've tested it a few times in the past. Without the assist it attempts too late (if at all). If I turn the signal on, then it has a high probability of success.

The second intervention is shortly after. This a regular trouble spot. It sometimes "misses" merging back onto the freeway and instead heads for the exit. Today's intervention was a "stuck" left turn signal. This appears to reveal some sort of race condition in the in logic. I think the car "forgets" that it already had merged into the traffic lane, so it "thinks" it needs to move left. The screen says something like "changing lanes to follow route". That doesn't make sense since the next action is going to be exit to right and it is coming up soon. In that past, if I cancel the left turn signal the car actually makes the lane change. If don't cancel it, it just keeps blinking until the exit comes up. Today, when I canceled it, it stayed in the lane, probably because there were cars to the left so it couldn't make the lane change. This is the northbound highway 85 to 237 in Mountain View, CA.

The third, most interesting intervention, was near the end. The car started signaling a left turn into the "exit only" driveway of the parking garage at work. I think I canceled the left and pressed the accelerator to "push" the car a little further to the actual driveway that I needed to enter. I actually then signaled left, and let the car complete the left turn into the driveway. This is interesting because the car been correctly doing this maneuver with the same version of the software. I suspect the car "purged" its cached map of area. I took a week off so hadn't driven this area for over one week. Related observation is the route the car was showing for exiting "wrong" path. I had seen the wrong path before in the V12 testing but it seems that car had "learned" the correct routing in the garage. So, again it seems the car had forgotten some.

While on vacation, in our model Y, obviously in areas that we hadn't driven recently, had a couple or three disengagements where the wheel twitched for no apparent reason. Because I was actually holding the wheel it resulted in a disengagement.
 
Is it possible that 12.4 is being held up until after the shareholders vote?
It's crazy quiet on any announcements or updates when all the talk about how fast they are making progress and pumping 12.4 and even 12.5.

Guess I am anxious being on 2024.3.25 and seeing a LOT of vehicles get the spring update with no updates for those of us being held up for the latest FSD.
 
Thing is, with @AlanSubie4Life, is that with one notable exception, he's been banging on the drum of, "It's all BS! It'll never be anything but BS!", for a long, long time now.

I kind of vaguely understood his point when we were all meandering around with 10.x; clearly, 10.x was barely acceptable as a test load, with 10 interventions (or more!) per mile. But the point wasn't that the load was horrible: It's that we were collectively sending data back to Tesla so it could become less horrible over time.

And, while there were fits and starts in the progression of updates with regressions from time to time, there's absolutely no question that the software did improve. The intervention rate, as nebulous and probabilistic as it was, was trending downwards and the occasional 10 mile drive without an intervention would pop up from time to time.

The 11.x series of releases were an eye opener. First, the limited access highway (LAH) versions of this software got seriously good; in fact, people use this stuff now and rack up serious interstate miles sans problems. The City Streets, with the occasional regression, also improved, to the point where a random drive somewhere had about a 50-50 chance of not requiring an intervention. Seriously better than the 10.x releases.

While @AlanSubie4Life did properly criticize the failings of the 10.x and 11.x branches and, yup, there're many of those failings, his "It's all BS! It'll never be anything but BS!" analysis of what FSD was doing never changed. I had begun to get the impression that, no matter how good FSD got, if it didn't drive exactly the way Alan wanted it to drive, then it was back to full roar "It's All BS!"

And then we got 12.x releases. Something weird happened. For almost a week, Alan actually said good things about the software. I just about fell off my chair.

I'm a-telling you: I use FSD(S) all the blinking time. Yep, I do intervene - but, out of, I dunno, ten drives, I might only end up intervening twice, maybe three times. And I'm talking drives from three miles to fifty. I've seen 12.3.6 respond to hand signals, politely let cars turn in front of it, and, when another car pauses to allow the car room to turn, FSD(S) has taken that turn. It's acting humanish, and that's new.

There's this point I've made over time: "Is the software ready for Ma and Pa Sixpack?" On 10.anything or 11.anything, I'd've definitely said no. On 12.x..

Right now, there's two close friends, both of whom have bought Model Y's in the last eight months, one of whom is the type one has to lead down the garden path on anything technical, the other being somewhat self starting, but no expert of self driving cars. Both of them love the software and use it. Um. One of them is a Ma Sixpack, the other's not far from it, and they're using the driver assist software the way it should be used. One of them has definitely paid for the FSDS and plans to keep using it.

So.. what happened with Alan? Looking at his current set of comments and evaluations: It's as if nothing has changed in three years. The, "It's All BS!" rant.. sounds old. And has no sense of proportion, or the changes that have been wrought in the last three years, and especially in the last six.

Frankly, while I'd like to see a newer version of FSDS, just like the rest of you, there are the repetitive statements from Tesla principals that they are Very Much going for Safety. I have the distinct impression that they are going for a Ma and Pa Sixpack target. In that case, the lack of new-every-two-weeks releases that we'd all like to see isn't a failure: It's a desire to Get It Right This Time.

We'll see. But I'm expecting great things from the company.
micerop.gif
 
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Wait - you have never tested it?
Never tested other drivers? How much writing do I have to do? Why would I need to test it? What?
What do you do when you're on a 2 lane highway and you want to drive 60 and the guy behind you wants to drive 80?
I pull aside and let them go in this hypothetical.
you must live a very disappointed life. How do you manage all of the non-spectacular drivers you're forced to share the road with?
It’s fine. I just identify, pass, or avoid them and move on. My life is a constant disappointment.

if it didn't drive exactly the way Alan wanted it to drive,
This mischaracterizes what I have consistently said - it needs to drive competently.
Looking at his current set of comments and evaluations: It's as if nothing has changed in three years.
I think you have missed a few comments. Obviously it is way better. But that was an awfully low bar. But remember there were plenty of people raving about 10 and 11. Whoops!

Now we are getting to the point where with a few “simple” improvements it could be a great L2 assist. I don’t think we’ll get them though.

In other words, it infuriates you but you have no idea if it infuriates others.
Wut? Why would I need to verify something that I know? This is complete nonsense.
That is totally a you problem. Most people do not have your impossibly high standards; that most humans wouldn't even meet.
This is false.
Shoot you say you like to stop 100% on regen, no physical brakes, and to do that in my area you would have to start slowing way earlier, and take way longer.
This is false. Charge your car to 50% and be a legend. And obviously I am talking about competently executed stops, regen emulated.
And you can happily commiserate with that group while others with unicorn cars, like me, trot along with our excellent L2 assist.
I just want to see one uncut video with multiple properly executed stops from speed. Still waiting!

with only one disengagement
How many interventions?
Sure, the Alan's of the world
This is false.
Do you believe FSD can achieve L3 even with hardware limitations?
No.
 
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Intervention is where you interact with the system ( pressing brakes or accelerator or turning the wheel) for a situation unrelated to safety . Thinks like, ‘this is not the correct exit, the car is waiting for too long at this Xn’.

Disengagement is where you take control because you think you will end up in an accident if you let FSD continue to drive.
Maybe I misunderstood the original post. Here is how many people view the difference. If you use the accelerator FSD is not disabled. If you press the brake or turn the wheel FSD is disabled. Thus the difference between a disengagement where FSD is disabled and when it's not an intervention. Unfortunately Elon uses intervention interchangeably and many others are following his lead causing a lot of confusion.