FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[enemji]

I had begun to get the impression that, no matter how good FSD got, if it didn't drive exactly the way Alan wanted it to drive, then it was back to full roar "It's All BS!"

Alan needs to apply to become the AI NN Training driver. That might help.

 

[enemji]

It’s fine. I just identify, pass, or avoid them and move on. My life is a constant disappointment.

This mischaracterizes what I have consistently said - it needs to drive competently.

Sounds like the same reason why Surya Bonaly never got the gold medal, even when she exceeded the expectations of an ice skater.

 

[MP3Mike]

Wut? Why would I need to verify something that I know? This is complete nonsense.

How can you possibly know that if you haven't tested it.

In reference to most people not having the impossible high standards of Alan:

This is false.

You have lost all credibility...

 

[Sharps97]

120 mile round trip coming up tomorrow. Looking forward to no interventions because I'm not going to use FSD!

 

[joelkfla]

I realized something today.

I used to get ticked off when somebody zoomed past me and then cut in front of me for a turn. Not like road rage level ticked off, just irritated.

When FSD is driving, I just don't care. I don't whether it's because I know that FSD will make the necessary adjustments, or simply that my overall level of stress is lower when using FSD. I think this alone makes the $99/mo worth it to me.

 

[FSDtester#1]

How can you possibly know that if you haven't tested it.

In reference to most people not having the impossible high standards of Alan:


You have lost all credibility...

You need to have something first to lose it. He is just pissed that @Tronguy
just used years of his own words against him. I like it when he takes shots at you.
He was warned, but doesn't care about looking like the Joker....

 

[Dewg]

How many interventions?

Oh yeah, forgot the interventions - there were 17 on that drive /s
I would have stated interventions if there were any, can you not read, dude?

 

[Electroman]

Maybe I misunderstood the original post. Here is how many people view the difference. If you use the accelerator FSD is not disabled. If you press the brake or turn the wheel FSD is disabled. Thus the difference between a disengagement where FSD is disabled and when it's not an intervention. Unfortunately Elon uses intervention interchangeably and many others are following his lead causing a lot of confusion.

Sometimes I am impatient when it is waiting to take a turn, and so I intervene by pressing the brake, take control, make the turn and then turn on FSD again. I am sure if I had waited another 15 - 30 secs the traffic would have cleared and it would have made the turn, but that is being rude for people behind me.

There are many times the car is still in the far left lane of the highway when the exit is just less than a quarter mile. With only 300 feet or so to go. it tries to shift with a lot of difficulty due to heavy traffic and misses the exit completely and takes the next exit. I don't have the patience for such idiocy, and disengage FSD, shift lanes and then turn on FSD.

In both these situations it is NOT a security related take over. The car would have eventually reached its destination, albeit a bit late. To me these are 'interventions'.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In reference to most people not having the impossible high standards of Alan:

What?

You have lost all credibility...

Huh?

How can you possibly know that if you haven't tested it.

I am just not even following at this point. I don’t need to test something if I know what will happen. This is all so weird. I don’t make it my objective in life to infuriate other drivers by stopping in all the wrong places and driving like a weirdo. There’s no reason to test that. Why is this not making sense? Bizarre.

The weird “actually stopping is fine” has got to stop when we all know it is not fine. No one likes it! Let’s be real.

 

[dacpdx]

Sometimes I am impatient when it is waiting to take a turn, and so I intervene by pressing the brake, take control, make the turn and then turn on FSD again. I am sure if I had waited another 15 - 30 secs the traffic would have cleared and it would have made the turn, but that is being rude for people behind me.

There are many times the car is still in the far left lane of the highway when the exit is just less than a quarter mile. With only 300 feet or so to go. it tries to shift with a lot of difficulty due to heavy traffic and misses the exit completely and takes the next exit. I don't have the patience for such idiocy, and disengage FSD, shift lanes and then turn on FSD.

In both these situations it is NOT a security related take over. The car would have eventually reached its destination, albeit a bit late. To me these are 'interventions'.

FYI- these interventions you describe can be made WITHOUT disengaging FSD.

For the slow-to-turn scenario, when you judge there is a suitable gap to go, just nudge the accelerator and the car will move and make the turn.

For the delayed exit lane positioning, when you feel it’s getting close and FSD is not moving over, just request a lane change by putting on the turn signal- FSD will make the lane change and continue with no disengagement.

 

[dhanson865]

I assume you actually mean disengagements not interventions.
A lot is how patient you are and whether you'e prone to disengage or not. Over time many of us decide most disengagements aren't necessary once you understand how FSD behaves.

I have forced disengagements in some cases, optional disengagements in some cases, I don't intervene if it isn't going to be a disengagement

I can't make it all the way from work to home or home to work without disengagements and I can't make it from my work to the most common restaurant I eat at without multiple disengagements.

 

[dhanson865]

I reset my camera calibration tonight after reading about it a few times, I'm not using 12.3.x on a daily basis so I can live without it for a few hours while it recalibrates.

Oh and I still have 0 notifications/emails in the Tesla app, the car, or my desktop PC explaining when or if my free FSD will stop.

 

[drtimhill]

How can you possibly know that if you haven't tested it.

In reference to most people not having the impossible high standards of Alan:


You have lost all credibility...

Hmm was there any to lose???

 

[drtimhill]

FSDs will always pick the rightmost turn lane on the left turns to avoid curb rash / jumping the median for most times when getting in the lane on the other end

View attachment 1051804

That doesn’t match my experience. In fact V12 tends to dither about which one to choose and often ends up taking rightmost lane as much as any other.

 

[Dewg]

How some people here view FSDS

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How some people here view FSDS

View attachment 1053690

True, except for how really no instructions needed; it happens automatically.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I used to get ticked off when somebody zoomed past me and then cut in front of me for a turn. Not like road rage level ticked off, just irritated.

When FSD is driving, I just don't care.

When Tesla mixes in conversational features using xAI Grok, they could create a mode where the car keeps up a running grumpy commentary about the other drivers on the road.

This would relieve the burden of indignation and offload stress, and it would also reinforce one's confidence that the car is well aware of its surroundings. Based on my experience, it would actually reduce my own irritation: when I ride with a friend or family driver who complains a lot, my natural reaction is to be more calm and philosophical to moderate their behavior. If I'm alone in the car, I'm more prone to anger and cursing when I get surprised by another's dumb move.

OTOH, if I'm riding in a taxi or Uber, it's pretty disconcerting when the stranger at the wheel gets too emotional... so it would be an interesting fine-tuning of the conversational AI's dusposition, to strike the right balance.

Some of you may remember the personality of Rosey the Robot maid on the Jetsons. There was something comforting in her mildly neurotic complaints about her situation.

 

[OxBrew]

I love how every FSFs cheerleader here always has to add "they just need to fix xyz and it will be perfect, I hope soon!"

You hope? What the hell?

You realize that all of your 0 intervention drives are meaningless, right?

You could drive 100,000 miles on FSDs with zero interventions and that's still meaningless. It could still kill you at 100,001 miles, and be 2-3x worse than the average human driver, and would still be a 100% total fail.

It literally needs to be 5x better than average to be acceptable from a safety perspective. 1 million miles per safety intervention.

Short of that, it's a dangerous party trick.

But, sure, keep being optimistic about progress. Have you all lost your minds? You've all parroted the same "6 months max" garbage for like 5-7 years.

This is hilarious.

I should change my name to Alan x1000, he's far too optimistic.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I love how every FSFs cheerleader here always has to add "they just need to fix xyz and it will be perfect, I hope soon!"

You hope? What the hell?

You realize that all of your 0 intervention drives are meaningless, right?

You could drive 100,000 miles on FSDs with zero interventions and that's still meaningless. It could still kill you at 100,001 miles, and be 2-3x worse than the average human driver, and would still be a 100% total fail.

It literally needs to be 5x better than average to be acceptable from a safety perspective. 1 million miles per safety intervention.

Short of that, it's a dangerous party trick.

But, sure, keep being optimistic about progress. Have you all lost your minds? You've all parroted the same "6 months max" garbage for like 5-7 years.

This is hilarious.

I should change my name to Alan x1000, he's far too optimistic.

This is perfect fodder for the xAI grumpiness training that I referenced just above.

(I'm not picking on you specifically; there are hundreds of examples here on TMC every week)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hmm was there any to lose???

As you know, I have been a consistent contributor here, offering factual assessments of FSD for those who may not have it - for years now. Credibility levels quite high, even if not everyone agrees with the assessments.

Nothing of late has altered that, in spite of people’s incoherent recent efforts to claim that…based on…something?

I will continue to contribute here as I see fit, with the continued high credibility, when 12.4 and 12.5 arrive.

As always, I will admit when I am wrong. It’s one of my favorite things to do. I’m wrong all the time! So maybe 12.4 and 12.5 will surprise me. I’ve previously offered my 12.4 estimates. We’ll see! Hopefully everyone has them bookmarked.

Everyone should make more use of bookmarks and hold each other accountable. Remember that some here believe Elon went forward with the 8/8 Robotaxi date based on the strength of what he had seen from 12.4 and 12.5! Will that assessment be correct? Let’s see!

I hope I am WAY off base and 12.4 is the huge step forward that people predicted, due to the rapid retraining of the NN enabled by AI with more training clips, or whatever the reason is.