FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[lzolman]

Poor road markings is a problem here too, for all drivers (computer and human.) They fade away too fast between the new environmentally safer paint and the use of road salt.

But I bet Boston will be a HUGE problem for AV because of the tendency of the drivers there to stop to allow pedestrians to cross. I found that if I was standing still at a corner, checking a tourist map, I needed to stand with my back to the road or else the drivers would stop to let me cross!

Wow, I do not see that around here (Boston) at all, myself...although, the roads are a lot narrower on average here than in California so there are more pedestrians crossing at places other than marked crossings. It's less of an adventure here than in CA to cross the road.

But in any case, why would it be a big problem for AVs?

 

[mongo]

Just so everyone that doesn't know here. @mongo Is one of the best contributors on TMC and has been for years. He speaks from tons of research and knowledge. When he posts here, take a minute to respond if you disagree.
In years of my experience, he is almost never wrong.
Nice to see you buddy!

Thanks, but you're too kind.
I speak from a position of excessive focus, optimized Googleing, and questionable optimism. I do try to source material when addressing questions, so if you don't see a link/ quote, watch out .

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Wow, I do not see that around here (Boston) at all, myself...although, the roads are a lot narrower on average here than in California so there are more pedestrians crossing at places other than marked crossings. It's less of an adventure here than in CA to cross the road.

But in any case, why would it be a big problem for AVs?

In years past, when I walked in Boston, cars would stop and give me the right away even if I had not indicated wanting or being ready to cross the road. A couple of times I crossed when I wasn't sure I wanted to, just to not be rude to the courteous drivers giving me the right of way.

Any AV will be confused by this behaviour by non AV drivers.

Of course, I haven't been to Boston in the last decade, it is possible the drivers have ceased being overly courteous to pedestrians. Halifax used to be far superior to Ottawa (but not nearly like Boston) and drivers there have become much less considerate in the past 10 years, so much so, that pedestrians now pick up a flag when they are wanting to cross at a cross walk in order to make sure driver's pay attention. In Ottawa, I walk with walking sticks to swing at the cars as I cross certain problematic intersections where the cars ignore pedestrians crossing with the signal. I also scream at vehicles so that visually impaired drivers will know I was in the intersection as they brush by me.

 

[Nakk]

Still makes no sense - If you can see the person's eyes you rely on them. If not you revert to other modalities. Honestly, this is freshman level stuff.

Absolutely agreed! I think though that your big mistake is expecting a requirement from a government agency to make sense... Having spent my whole adult life dealing with government regulations I've found that sometimes they're good, and other times some high level moron can't understand what common sense even means. As an International Airline Captain, most of the regs we follow are intelligent and important to adhere to. Other regs are stupid, and decrease the level of safety markedly. Fortunately I had the ability to use Captain's authority to do the safe thing if I needed to deviate from the regs. I don't think the NHTSA gives Tesla that authority.

 

[sleepydoc]

Absolutely agreed! I think though that your big mistake is expecting a requirement from a government agency to make sense... Having spent my whole adult life dealing with government regulations I've found that sometimes they're good, and other times some high level moron can't understand what common sense even means. As an International Airline Captain, most of the regs we follow are intelligent and important to adhere to. Other regs are stupid, and decrease the level of safety markedly. Fortunately I had the ability to use Captain's authority to do the safe thing if I needed to deviate from the regs. I don't think the NHTSA gives Tesla that authority.

in all fairness, if they did give Tesla the authority I wouldn't necessarily trust them to use it wisely

 

[powertoold]

Another meaningless video on the way to autonomy:

https://x.com/Space_Strategy/status/1750658531198406749?s=20

 

[lzolman]

In years past, when I walked in Boston, cars would stop and give me the right away even if I had not indicated wanting or being ready to cross the road. A couple of times I crossed when I wasn't sure I wanted to, just to not be rude to the courteous drivers giving me the right of way.

Any AV will be confused by this behaviour by non AV drivers.

This is the part I don't understand. If an AV is following another car and the car slows, the AV will slow down too. If the AV is facing a car coming toward it and that car slows for a pedestrian, the AV will see the pedestrian. So where would the confusion arise?

Of course, I haven't been to Boston in the last decade, it is possible the drivers have ceased being overly courteous to pedestrians. Halifax used to be far superior to Ottawa (but not nearly like Boston) and drivers there have become much less considerate in the past 10 years, so much so, that pedestrians now pick up a flag when they are wanting to cross at a cross walk in order to make sure driver's pay attention. In Ottawa, I walk with walking sticks to swing at the cars as I cross certain problematic intersections where the cars ignore pedestrians crossing with the signal. I also scream at vehicles so that visually impaired drivers will know I was in the intersection as they brush by me.

A little OT, but something that I've always found amusing is that Boston has a reputation for "crazy" drivers, and sometimes due to the Byzantine road layout the driving can get hairy, but all in all I'm more relaxed and make much better time driving from point A to point B around Boston than I do in large Cali cities (heavy traffic notwithstanding). I think it's because more people in New England understand lane discipline. I do not believe they even taught it when I took driver's ed at Hollywood High in the 70s (I was born and raised in L.A.) It seemed really messed up when I'd be on a 5-lane freeway in L.A. where everyone was going around the speed limit, and no one yields to traffic behind them in the fast lane. Just abysmal.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand: traffic signal observance here in Boston vis a. vis pedestrians is fine, about the same as it is anywhere else. But it would be pretty unlikely for a car to stop for a random pedestrian who is not looking like they're actively meaning to cross the road. If they are, then even when it's not at a crosswalk, traffic (if not heavy so that it would actually be dangerous to do so) often stops to wave the pedestrian across the street. I certainly would do that if it were safe.

 

[powertoold]

Another meaningless video on the way to autonomy:

https://x.com/Space_Strategy/status/1750658531198406749?s=20

Pretty sure nobody cares, but V12 seems to still use V11 on highway, if you look at this vid, on highway, it is highlighting lane changes in blue and has the old longer noodle

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Another meaningless video on the way to autonomy:

https://x.com/Space_Strategy/status/1750658531198406749?s=20

Correct. Easy drive, sped up like 5x, no commentary. It was pretty meaningless. The downtempo music was pleasant. Thanks for sharing.

 

[dramsey]

It's one thing to be an early researcher of computer architectures and entirely different to be a publicly traded company trying to vertically integrate. As TSLA fails, the NVDA machine keeps optimizing more and more powerful solutions.

On the other hand, Tesla successfully developed their own chips for FSD when they found the Drive PX computer from Nvidia didn't fit their needs.

I don't know if Dojo will work out or not-- it's not looking good, based on Elon's comments in the latest earnings call. But Tesla was built on taking technological risks-- building out their own fast charging stations, developing their own EVs from scratch, et cetera so on and such forth. Sometimes a bet won't work out, but I think that a blanket statement that trying to develop your own supercomputer architecture is a "folly" isn't warranted.

 

[Captkerosene]

Building a supercomputer based on your own proprietary chip was and is a folly.

On the other hand, Tesla successfully developed their own chips for FSD when they found the Drive PX computer from Nvidia didn't fit their needs.

I don't know if Dojo will work out or not-- it's not looking good, based on Elon's comments in the latest earnings call. But Tesla was built on taking technological risks-- building out their own fast charging stations, developing their own EVs from scratch, et cetera so on and such forth. Sometimes a bet won't work out, but I think that a blanket statement that trying to develop your own supercomputer architecture is a "folly" isn't warranted.

It sounds a lot easier than a dozen things Elon has already accomplished. For example: a monkey playing Pong telepathically.

 

[Todd Burch]

On the other hand, Tesla successfully developed their own chips for FSD when they found the Drive PX computer from Nvidia didn't fit their needs.

I don't know if Dojo will work out or not-- it's not looking good, based on Elon's comments in the latest earnings call. But Tesla was built on taking technological risks-- building out their own fast charging stations, developing their own EVs from scratch, et cetera so on and such forth. Sometimes a bet won't work out, but I think that a blanket statement that trying to develop your own supercomputer architecture is a "folly" isn't warranted.

Elon confirmed today that Tesla is investing in a $500M Dojo compute center in NY today…details in other threads.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Pretty sure nobody cares, but V12 seems to still use V11 on highway, if you look at this vid, on highway, it is highlighting lane changes in blue and has the old longer noodle

Yes, and that’s what made it a pretty meaningless v12 video, but yeah, looks like v11 highway driving for sure.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So I know V12 is running on HW4; is it running on HW3? I haven't been paying attention and not sure if any trackers have this info.

 

[Buckminster]

Omar drives some guy called AI DRIVR

 

[JulienW]

Pretty sure nobody cares, but V12 seems to still use V11 on highway, if you look at this vid, on highway, it is highlighting lane changes in blue and has the old longer noodle

......so......now we have 3 Stacks?

 

[spacecoin]

I was referring to the Bionic chips used in the iphones as well as the Macbooks. they moved away from IBM & Intel and built their own.

Sure, but that’s trivial compared to building a bespoke super computer architecture…

 

[diplomat33]

......so......now we have 3 Stacks?

It sure looks that way but I think it will be temporary. V12 will likely replace V11 pretty quickly, especially if Tesla follows through with the apparent plan of rolling out V12 to everybody with FSD beta in the next few weeks. And eventually, I think Tesla will use V12's end-to-end for everything, including basic AP.

 

[aronth5]

Omar drives some guy called AI DRIVR

Funny you say some guy called AI Driver.
AI Driver has a unique style and his FSD videos are interesting and usually excellent to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/@AIDRIVR

 

[sleepydoc]

Cloverleaf exits (and entrances) have been repeated failure points for me so it looks like that won’t change with v12, at least initially. :/