FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[powertoold]

V12 is simply magical. I have no idea how this was achieved

 

[dramsey]

In C++, however, each component of the system is encapsulated, making it pretty well decoupled from the other components (each has its own interface, with no shared global data ideally, or at least no practical chance of name collisions.)

IRL, it's "each component can be encapsulated". In my experience this rarely is the case. Since C++ is tacked onto regular C, programmers are still free to use regular C syntax and operations (e.g. malloc) and many do, It's so easy to just use a global to get data from this object into that object. And of course a lot of production code that started as a decades-old pile of regular C can have C++ additions. Bridging the gap between procedural C and object-oriented C++ is something that has never been formalized (in fact, when I was working, nobody had yet defined a formal grammar for C++. Perhaps they have now.)

Oh, and yes, the STL has gotten a lot more portable, powerful, reliable and intuitive since the early days. Check out std::ranges (often referred to as "STL v2") in C++20.

Well, that's some progress, I guess. I remember at a conference where someone asked Bjarne Stroustrup how you avoided memory leaks in C++ code, and he replied "By not writing any." and recommending the STL for everything.

Still, it sounds as if things are much better now. Anyway, probably time to end this egregious deviation from the topic!

 

[Buckminster]

 

[sleepydoc]

nothing quite like proceeding with tons of margin of 5-6 seconds, but instead doddering into the road at 8mph while attempting to get sideswiped by oncoming traffic in the furthest lane

FSD’s been great at that, even with regular turns. It stops, looks, sees a gap, sees a car coming, then waits to turn until it practically cuts the car and having to rely on its crazy acceleration to avoid it instead of simply turning right away when there was plenty of time.

 

[lzolman]

IRL, it's "each component can be encapsulated".

Well, yeah, I was speaking in terms of well-designed C++ code, not people using C++ as "a better C"

Well, that's some progress, I guess. I remember at a conference where someone asked Bjarne Stroustrup how you avoided memory leaks in C++ code, and he replied "By not writing any." and recommending the STL for everything.

Smart pointers are the biggest improvement w/r/t memory management. There's an April fools joke that comes up every once in a while, claiming the C++ standards committee had just deprecated raw pointers

Still, it sounds as if things are much better now. Anyway, probably time to end this egregious deviation from the topic!

Sounds good!

 

[Supcom]

Question about software versions.
There is now 2024.2.x versions going out over the past few weeks to a LOT of vehicles some including 11.4.9, but FSD v12.2 is version 2023.44.30.15.

I am on 2023.44.30.8 with FSD beta 11.4.9.

If I want to get FSD v12.2 (if it release to the public soon) should I be mindful of NOT installing any 2024.2.x versions or skipping it so not to get ahead and have to wait?

I thought the idea was there was no longer going to be different branches but with this latest information of different versions going out with different FSD beta's its very confusing on what to expect.

Tesla has never communicated what plans they have for the separate development branch of FSD. It does appear that some, if not all, of the current FSD licensees are being held at 2023.44.30.x in preparation for possible rollout of a V12 version. I've asked multiple times if anyone with FSD has been pushed a 2024.2.x release, but have heard nothing. So, I'm assuming that all current FSD cars are being held back for now.

In my case, my non-FSD car has gotten 2024.2.2.1, but my FSD car is still on 2023.44.30.8.

So, I'll ask again. Has anyone with FSD been pushed 2024.2.x? If so, were you in the development branch prior to the holiday release-fest?

 

[kabin]

V12 is simply magical. I have no idea how this was achieved

Aside from smoother controls and responding to speed bumps, v12.1.2 has been pretty much picked apart. Gotta hope v12.2 reveals significant improvements otherwise its gonna be more of the same old fix this, regress that.

Release notes will be interesting as it may be qualitative hand-waving versus those sketchy quantitative % features improvements given the planned heuristics removal.

 

[JB47394]

Aside from smoother controls and responding to speed bumps, v12.1.2 has been pretty much picked apart. Gotta hope v12.2 reveals significant improvements otherwise its gonna be more of the same old fix this, regress that.

What improvements are you looking for? The big problem that I see constantly is negotiating four way stops. Apart from that, it seems very solid.

Also, I'm not sure why you're expecting "the same old" from a neural network when the prior iteration was based on hand-built heuristics.

 

[Knightshade]

Although the beta designation can have some legal implications, at least they can refer to it as beta for lawsuit purposes

How? There's no legal definition, or meaning, for the word.

 

[powertoold]

How? There's no legal definition, or meaning, for the word.

Well, likewise, there's no legal definition for FSD or "action"

 

[Mardak]

There's no legal definition, or meaning, for the word.

CA DMV used "FSD beta" name in communication with Tesla legal in the context of "City Streets" feature and how it's a driver-assistance feature not subject to regulations related to autonomous features. If Tesla changes the name for some later 12.x to remove "beta," presumably regulators will want to know why, but potentially Tesla would continue to argue that even without the "beta" word, FSD still has limitations and responsibilities communicated to drivers.

 

[Daniel in SD]

My prediction, FSD won't go out of beta until it's unsupervised.

 

[powertoold]

My prediction, FSD won't go out of beta until it's unsupervised.

My prediction: initially, unsupervised fsd will still be beta, but Tesla will ask users to don a helmet and shoulder pads while in the car

 

[lzolman]

The first release of V12 will be beta whether it's in the name or not!

 

[JulienW]

My prediction, FSD won't go out of beta until it's unsupervised.

Originally FSD Beta didn't have a separate number and was just part of the software release. It was the influencers that started numbering it and Elon stepped in and set the number and then Tesla started listing it.

[wild speculation]So maybe by "out of Beta" Elon means to drop the FSD Beta number/name since FSD is now included with every software branch. So just like Autosteer doesn't have a Beta number FSD would just be "backed" into the release but still be a Beta feature. So we would not look for new FSD Beta updates but just improvements in the next car's software update.

 

[enemji]

Current v12 has no "memory", it just shoots from the hip and learns from 30 second clips. So it's like a goldfish basically.

except that the goldfish in this case is not preprogrammed for two tasks and can continuously learn to be more intelligent every day, every moment.

 

[TK211X]

Tesla has never communicated what plans they have for the separate development branch of FSD. It does appear that some, if not all, of the current FSD licensees are being held at 2023.44.30.x in preparation for possible rollout of a V12 version. I've asked multiple times if anyone with FSD has been pushed a 2024.2.x release, but have heard nothing. So, I'm assuming that all current FSD cars are being held back for now.

In my case, my non-FSD car has gotten 2024.2.2.1, but my FSD car is still on 2023.44.30.8.

So, I'll ask again. Has anyone with FSD been pushed 2024.2.x? If so, were you in the development branch prior to the holiday release-fest?

Staged subscribers being held pending V12 candidate push.

 

[enemji]

If autonomy was solved by "more data" and "more compute" it would have been solved five years ago.

Except that it was understaffed and Elon got his attention diverted by SpaceX and Twitter.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Originally FSD Beta didn't have a separate number and was just part of the software release. It was the influencers that started numbering it and Elon stepped in and set the number and then Tesla started listing it.

[wild speculation]So maybe by "out of Beta" Elon means to drop the FSD Beta number/name since FSD is now included with every software branch. So just like Autosteer doesn't have a Beta number FSD would just be "backed" into the release but still be a Beta feature. So we would not look for new FSD Beta updates but just improvements in the next car's software update.

Then what will unsupervised V12 be called? I think the beta tag will be used to distinguish between supervised and unsupervised versions of FSD.

 

[Twiglett]

Staged subscribers being held pending V12 candidate push.

is that an opinion or factual