FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Mardak]

Where is the boundary between highway stack and city street stack?

It probably depends on the map data for the specific on/off-ramp. If you don't want to use set speed AUTO (which only appears with 12.x stack active), the next thing to look for is the blue path where 11.x generally has it longer. Here's examples of it going from 11.x longer to 12.x shorter as well as 12.x shorter to 11.x longer.

(Thanks 11.x for the long hallucinated path into the barrier? I guess in general, high contrast scenes such as entering/exiting tunnels and underpasses can be difficult for vision.)

(Thanks 11.x for unnecessarily swerving back to on-ramp lane instead of completing the lane change initiated by 12.x?)

 

[asterothe]

Seems like you're in California, so might be higher chances for you if you're running 2023.44.30.8 or 2023.44.30.14? TeslaFi shows those who got 2023.44.30.20 / FSD Beta 12.2.1 came from either of those versions, and assuming Tesla is still primarily testing California, there's 1073 TeslaFi California vehicles waiting to be like the 62 similar vehicles that did get 12.x. So the previous rollout was roughly 5% chance for you / that population.

I have 2023.44.30.8. I will keep hoping. Thanks!

 

[rlsd]

It probably depends on the map data for the specific on/off-ramp. If you don't want to use set speed AUTO (which only appears with 12.x stack active), the next thing to look for is the blue path where 11.x generally has it longer. Here's examples of it going from 11.x longer to 12.x shorter as well as 12.x shorter to 11.x longer.

View attachment 1024727

(Thanks 11.x for the long hallucinated path into the barrier? I guess in general, high contrast scenes such as entering/exiting tunnels and underpasses can be difficult for vision.)

View attachment 1024728

(Thanks 11.x for unnecessarily swerving back to on-ramp lane instead of completing the lane change initiated by 12.x?)

I probably need to bring couple red cones to put along the freeway exit to determine v11 or V12 behavior. If red cones don't show up on the visualization then it's V12 behavior.

 

[nikolajz1]

Maybe it's just me, but I am far less likely to use V12 unless they keep a robust prediction visual on the screen. From a trust perspective I don't like the disconnect now that exists between what's in screen and what decision V12 makes. Seems very unsafe until we get to actual L4 territory.

 

[eli_]

The visuals have always been cool but they also highlight the very weakness that limited earlier approaches to self driving... There are no human comprehensible states in-between perception and planning.

When vision models detect a car, do you care to know what features it honed in on to detect that car? Did it consider the shape of the hood or maybe it saw the wheels? You only care if it saw the car or not.

It's the same for end-to-end models, you only care if it turned left when shown an image of the road going left, it stops at the places where you are supposed to stop, etc.

 

[laiod]

As usual, I could be wrong on the below. But I don't think so.

Methinks FSD is moving, in V12, towards a truly non-Beta version. Meaning, "Mom and Pa Sixpack", and "It's Gotta Work". I suspect that Tesla (Musk, the developers, whoever) can smell that it's getting close, and they want that brass ring.

Versions of FSD-b that had that, "Car will do the wrong thing at the worst time" that came before; well, Tesla would unleash versions of FSD that could (and did) scare the pants off of Consumers Reports. But the general idea was that we-all with FSD-b were testers, first and foremost, providing feedback to the developers. Our interest was in moving the FSD-b development process along so, at some point, we could have a shiny FSD batch of software that didn't make mistakes.

As time has moved on and FSD-b has gotten better, the software's been released to a wider audience. The buttons and that phraseology about Wrong Things are still there, though, with, at least 11.4.9, good reason. Not to mention that there's the feedback being recorded every time a tester (and, yeah, we're all still testers) disengages autopilot.

So, what would it look like if Tesla thinks they can make it over the hump? Releases would slow down, so they really can fix the last dozen bugs. And that's where we may be at the moment.

Yeah, yeah, I know: The contingent to whom no FSD should ever be released, ever, are present and active on this thread, so I expect "Laughing" emojis in large quantities on this post. But I take this slowdown as a good sign. We'll see.

I better get my free 30 days of FSD if it comes out of Beta!

 

[rlsd]

A subtle observation about v12.2.1: On city street the car is not always in the center of the lane. If the lane on the left or right side of the car does not have other cars then the car is shifted about 6-9 inches to that side from the center of the lane.

 

[powertoold]

I tried to recalibrate my cameras to eliminate any variables with 12.2.1, but it's taking a longer time than expected to finish calibrating

 

[hobertg]

I still have 2023.44.30.8 (no recall installed yet) so hopeful that they are considering that and will deploy updates with v12 soon!

 

[JulienW]

I better get my free 30 days of FSD if it comes out of Beta!

...or what?

 

[gottagofast]

A subtle observation about v12.2.1: On city street the car is not always in the center of the lane. If the lane on the left or right side of the car does not have other cars then the car is shifted about 6-9 inches to that side from the center of the lane.

I think this is what what I wanted, is it shifted a few inches to the right on a 2 lane road with oncoming traffic too?

 

[rlsd]

I think this is what what I wanted, is it shifted a few inches to the right on a 2 lane road with oncoming traffic too?

It does that a lot better than v11.4.9. The gap between the car and the oncoming traffic is very safe.
When v11.4.9 made right turns from the main street to my neighborhood I felt very uncomfortable because the car was too close to the traffic on the left lane.
v12 maintains a wider gap.

 

[rlsd]

It does that a lot better than v11.4.9. The gap between the car and the oncoming traffic is very safe.
When v11.4.9 made right turns from the main street to my neighborhood I felt very uncomfortable because the car was too close to the traffic on the left lane.
v12 maintains a wider gap.

More about gap between car and oncoming cars:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765023098074464568

 

[aronth5]

I quick clarification. V12 dos NOT work on the highway yet. When you get on the highway V12 switches to V11. So while you are driving on the highway you ARE on V11.

It is possible as you exited it switched from V11 to V12 and this confused V12.

I am on V11 and I have an exit from one major interstate to another major interstate where 50% of the time FSD starts to take the wrong exit even though it's mapped correctly on the display. So the above behavior may have nothing to do with different stacks.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I am on V11 and I have an exit from one major interstate to another major interstate where 50% of the time FSD starts to take the wrong exit even though it's mapped correctly on the display. So the above behavior may have nothing to do with different stacks.

Same for me.

 

[rlsd]

I am on V11 and I have an exit from one major interstate to another major interstate where 50% of the time FSD starts to take the wrong exit even though it's mapped correctly on the display. So the above behavior may have nothing to do with different stacks.

But it happens more frequently with V12 for me. I just had another one 30 minutes ago.

 

[sleepydoc]

A subtle observation about v12.2.1: On city street the car is not always in the center of the lane. If the lane on the left or right side of the car does not have other cars then the car is shifted about 6-9 inches to that side from the center of the lane.

So more human-like?

 

[sleepydoc]

I'm saying average Joe user could have no idea what the hell they are doing, and come into it with the mind set (that I've seen explicitly articulated here) of "FSD is ready for sleeping in the back seat, the Feds just hate Elon, I'm getting all the wheel weights I can and playing video games on my phone!" Almost word for word a few months ago.

You don't get to say those people are outliers if you don't have a GD bullet proof system to keep it out of their hands.

Engineering has to recognize the actual use case at every release.

In other words, there is no situation where the right response to user error is "you're holding it wrong."

So people with no common sense. (Who probably shouldn’t be driving)

 

[rlsd]

So more human-like?

Better than 95 percent of human drivers on the road.

Also it made a beautiful unprotected u turn in the middle of the road (not at the intersection) this morning. The road has 2 lanes each side. In my previous 3 u turns the roads have 3 lanes each side.

 

[sleepydoc]

More about gap between car and oncoming cars:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765023098074464568

I’m actually getting pretty excited for V12. Clearly it’s not perfect, but watching the videos it’s definitely a step forward and I think there’s a lot of potential. We’ll have to see how it progresses.

The other thing I noticed was the guy in the video had more ‘pay attention to the road’ alerts and had them more frequently than I had when I got the strike I mentioned above. (He also took much longer to react to the blue screen than I do.) either I’ve pissed Elon off and FSD doesn’t like me or there’s something else going on with the monitoring in my car.