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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW I literally passed a possum tonight on 12.3.... car did not react, but it wasn't technically in the roadway.
Today was my first use of 12.3, didn't get to drive a ton, only about 15 min total roundtrip.... first half I noticed only 2 differences in behavior from 11.49 at all -- first is it accelerated a bit more aggressively after a right turn onto a main road-- positive change in my book-- but on smaller roads it also seemed more reluctant to get up to the speed limit (I think Chuck or someone also commented on it doing this?) so negative there I guess? The disappointing bit was at stop signs with any obstruction it seemed just as hesitant as 11.4 did- to the point if it wasn't for no cars behind me I'd have taken over to do it faster.
On return trip- same observation about seeming slower on smaller roads.... but on the upside the return route is slightly different and has 2 spots that 11.x had issues with.... one is a small/tight single-lane roundabout.... 11.4x handling of this seemed random.... occasionally it'd be ok but slightly jerky wheel, more often it'd be more noticably jerky wheeled but get through it--- once in a rare while it'd be jerky wheeled and just kinda stop (without the red take over message).... 12.3 was perfectly smooth (though it was just the one attempt).... The bigger one for me is there's a right turn on a local road-- just after which you get to a semi-weird 4-way intersection where the angles of the 4 ways are unusual.... 11.4.x would kinda freak out here-- jerking the wheel and car left/right- sometimes making it through in a scary-to-anyone-watching way, sometimes veering off in the absolute wrong way.... 12.3 had maybe a VERY slight wheel jerk initially but then drove it fine. The other observation on the return route is there's one 4-way stop WITHOUT any obstruction, and it did seem to get through that noticeably quicker than 11,.4.x did, so much so I wouldn't have intervened even with cars behind me.
So far I guess more improvement than downside, didn't see anything that made me think OMG RT TOMORROW, but admittedly quite limited data.
I’ve been testing since late ‘21 (10.x) and also following these threads. Like many I’ve been let down by hyped up releases many many times and know that these threads have gotten accordingly negative as time has gone on. But I think the naysayers are going to be quickly admitting they were wrong if they thought this was all going to lead to a big fat dead end for Tesla. It’s definitely arrived very late, but 12.3 is freakin impressive.
Ive only had a few drives so far (hw4) but virtually all the annoying quirks in my neighborhood with narrow roads and the surrounding urban area are gone. It’s basically gone from being almost unusable to quite useful. The only variable now is the state of improvement which already seems to have accelerated based on recent history with relatively quick point releases. Exciting times!
Ive only had a few drives so far (hw4) but virtually all the annoying quirks in my neighborhood with narrow roads and the surrounding urban area are gone. It’s basically gone from being almost unusable to quite useful. The only variable now is the state of improvement which already seems to have accelerated based on recent history with relatively quick point releases. Exciting times!
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mtndrew1
Active Member
I don’t have time to write much now but 12.3 was a very big improvement on my test route.
FSD Test Route
The first segment has always been a problem and remains so, which is weird, but it is what it is. The rest of the drive was quite natural except for one major misstep.
I didn’t expect much but I’m impressed.
FSD Test Route
The first segment has always been a problem and remains so, which is weird, but it is what it is. The rest of the drive was quite natural except for one major misstep.
I didn’t expect much but I’m impressed.
hey8you
Member
Same here. My car has the wrong icons therefore its a death trap for everyone around me. I need V12 now, lol.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Possum avoidance has already been proven. V12 determined that this possum was not a threat to itself or others.
Some positive news from me. I briefly tried 12.3 for about 0.5 miles, but in an area that 11.x had issues with. First, where the car used to go 55 in what should be a 35mph zone it now goes 35mph. Also the stop sigh turning into my neighborhood always caused 11.x problems but 12.3 did it very close to how I would drive it. Yea!!!! Only downside was going around a curve the car slowed in the middle of the curve from 35mph to around 20mph for no clear reason and seemed to be briefly confused but then recovered without disengaging. This was all at night. Overall a very positive result and gives me motivation to use FSD more often.
Ok, for all the naysayers- I did just find a safety-critical edge case that needs work. Despite being in an urban area, there are completely uncontrolled low visibility 4 way intersections in my neighborhood. Beta has always blown right through them requiring intervention. 12.3 still blows through some of them, but not all, which is actually impressive considering it’s history. These are uncommon interactions, but the car obviously needs to account for cross traffic control or lack thereof. I’m amazed they still haven’t addressed that fact but the rarity of this scenario must be the reason.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Congratulations, I can barely get my wife to sit in my car.
In 2 plus years she has been in it twice.
Ironically to take her and then pick her back up from her oil change. 🛢
Elon bad, electric cars bad, dangerous to have cars on streets that people can't hear coming.
My favorite is electric grid overload.
"Hey, um, babe, we have an entire roof covered in solar panels. Ummm, we haven't paid a nickel for electricity in 4 years, except for the $20 stay connected fee.."
Mic
drop....I slept in the guest room that night....
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Yes, you may be on to something. Remember when Elon Bad ( for my wife )
said nags would be eliminated for high mileage beta users like, I don't know, 100 years ago...
Well, I still have Elon, or God Mode with no nags, kinda ....
Today driving, I was feeling very spicy and actually started recording my hud or Binnacle (yes, it's a real word one of the smart posters taught me).
Anyways I was gonna show 10 minutes of no nags. Since I went 160 miles without one. This recording was gonna be done via phone in my hands.
Then the red move the wheel death warning appeared.
I started swearing so loud because of the thought of losing no nags.
So I torqued the yoke. Then bam, 3 minutes later, our old friend appeared again.
White flashing nag.
More swearing ensued...
Once my blood pressure returned to normal I thought hey, just park this thing, lock it, walk away and come back.
Did that, then 50 miles to destination, no nags.
So the red warning may start or increase nags. So avoid those!!
Then I took a night drive on a really dark road.... got 3 or 4 nags in 10 miles.
Hmmmm.... I think if it's daytime and you have sunglasses on, and don't get red warning, you may get little to no nags.
The 10 mile drive was on a nearby highway, so maybe V11 nag logic..
So I guess I don't have Elon mode, maybe Kimbal mode?
There's a lesson in there, I promise.
Tmc doesn't award you the #1 title for nothing
Your problem is not the car.Congratulations, I can barely get my wife to sit in my car.
In 2 plus years she has been in it twice.
Ironically to take her and then pick her back up from her oil change. 🛢
Elon bad, electric cars bad, dangerous to have cars on streets that people can't hear coming.
My favorite is electric grid overload.
"Hey, um, babe, we have an entire roof covered in solar panels. Ummm, we haven't paid a nickel for electricity in 4 years, except for the $20 stay connected fee.."
Mic
I slept in the guest room that night....
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Update, V12 is no longer perfect with Beavers an idiot installed into a roadway. It's only an inch or so above the street and made of copper or something similar.
It tried to avoid the beaver
pulling into my neighborhood tonight. 
It probably ended up hitting a few inches of the beaver.
Nowhere near as violent as V11 trying to avoid it, but noticeable.
So about 21 beaver misses, 1 light touch.
No more Beaver beer bets...
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
True, but she loved the 8 mile per gallon SUV I had before the MS.
Funny, all my life I was taught women are smarter than men....
I just looked; now resuming downloads on HW3 cars. Mostly CA as expected, also TX & AZ, one in WA which is good news.
OT: As this was happening earlier, my wife was on the back porch cooking and called me over to ask what was going on:
SpaceX Falcon 9 launch from Vandenberg, 640 miles West by Northwest. It was dark in Tucson but the sun was shining on the launch plume, very bright. It went all across the Western sky and faded out in the Southwest.
I wonder if this is general end-to-end improvements separate from new functionality like Summon and Banish?
Somewhat sounds like there might be focused training efforts to polish 3 types of behaviors each release? I wonder if release notes will reflect these items, e.g., speed control, unprotected left turns, braking profile?
Somewhat sounds like there might be focused training efforts to polish 3 types of behaviors each release? I wonder if release notes will reflect these items, e.g., speed control, unprotected left turns, braking profile?
Crew_Dragon
Member
Just started downloading 30.25 on our 2023 MYP with HW4. Was previously parked in 30.8 for what felt like forever. I'm in Atlanta.
I was in the first v10.2 rollout group, and over the past years, have been pretty lucky to get updates relatively early. I took advantage of the first FSD transfer in Q3 of last year. Since then, I've wondered if I'd get back on the "early access" list, or be perpetually mainstreamed. Happy to see v12.3 coming down and looking forward to giving it a run tomorrow.
I was in the first v10.2 rollout group, and over the past years, have been pretty lucky to get updates relatively early. I took advantage of the first FSD transfer in Q3 of last year. Since then, I've wondered if I'd get back on the "early access" list, or be perpetually mainstreamed. Happy to see v12.3 coming down and looking forward to giving it a run tomorrow.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
With a bit more driving on the way home today:
1) Really quite good fundamentals. Some cool, smooth maneuver around a bicycle in the bicycle lane on a right turn, competent maneuvering to get off of high-speed streets to small driveways, etc.
2) Response time seems to be better, though that requires more examples and testing.
3) The fact that it signals fairly reliably is good. Can't believe it took NNs to solve this vexing problem. But definitely an improvement.
4) Some cool, casual crossing of double yellow line on turns, to cut off the corner - just like a human would. I wouldn't do it, but it seemed natural without any traffic around, and not really an issue.
5) Just feels more natural - drifts around the lanes, isn't rigidly locked to the center, and generally drives where a human would in the lane (not always correct of course - it definitely makes mistakes here - I'm just saying it feels better most of the time).
6) Assertiveness speeding up from a stop usually is good, though sometimes inappropriate. This morning, it tried to mow down a cleaning lady crossing the street from behind a pickup truck on my street, surging rapidly up to ~20mph speed on my cul-de-sac to maximize ramming speed. Didn't see her I guess (I saw her about 3 seconds prior, just before the car accelerated from a turn, before she went behind the truck, so it was a trivial emergency stop for me). The car wasn't going to hit her, assuming she stopped walking, but it was inappropriate and close. My car doesn't make noise. Unfortunately was not recording for that otherwise I would post it.
Plenty of warts, though, as mentioned:
1) Stopping is a disaster. It does stop, and most of the time it doesn't use the brakes (sometimes it does!), but it's premature to a fault. And then it slowly rolls up to the stop line. And then stops five feet before it. This is for traffic lights, stop signs, whatever. It doesn't matter. And dealing with stop signs adds an extra layer of excrement on the whole problem since it hesitates, waits, and generally is completely confused about what to do. (This is with absolutely zero traffic - maybe it does better with traffic though I doubt it.)
2) Speed control is a disaster. Probably the number one problem, since it is basically a constant problem that has to always be addressed, unless there is lead traffic that is going at a pace where it can keep up.
Fix these two problems robustly and it'll be quite good as a driver's aid. I'm not sure what utility that will have, but it's better than having a driver's aid that sucks. The main utility of a driver's aid is one which can go on a straight street with traffic lights and no turns for miles, without intervention. Anything more complex is not required, really. And once these problems are solved it'll be able to do that.
What's unclear is whether they are solvable.
I do think that I'll lose the next bet on Chuck's turn. I'm not sure about the follow-on 12.3 test with traffic though. I think that will be tough for this version. But sooner or later @Daniel in SD will extract a beer. He's pretty far in the hole, so it's about time.
It can't deal with flashing red disabled traffic lights in construction zones. It just stops and stays stopped. Nice smooth movement to merge away from closed lanes (with cones and construction trailers with the flashing arrows) though. (All on Miramar Road which is putting in the poop pipes still.)
1) Really quite good fundamentals. Some cool, smooth maneuver around a bicycle in the bicycle lane on a right turn, competent maneuvering to get off of high-speed streets to small driveways, etc.
2) Response time seems to be better, though that requires more examples and testing.
3) The fact that it signals fairly reliably is good. Can't believe it took NNs to solve this vexing problem. But definitely an improvement.
4) Some cool, casual crossing of double yellow line on turns, to cut off the corner - just like a human would. I wouldn't do it, but it seemed natural without any traffic around, and not really an issue.
5) Just feels more natural - drifts around the lanes, isn't rigidly locked to the center, and generally drives where a human would in the lane (not always correct of course - it definitely makes mistakes here - I'm just saying it feels better most of the time).
6) Assertiveness speeding up from a stop usually is good, though sometimes inappropriate. This morning, it tried to mow down a cleaning lady crossing the street from behind a pickup truck on my street, surging rapidly up to ~20mph speed on my cul-de-sac to maximize ramming speed. Didn't see her I guess (I saw her about 3 seconds prior, just before the car accelerated from a turn, before she went behind the truck, so it was a trivial emergency stop for me). The car wasn't going to hit her, assuming she stopped walking, but it was inappropriate and close. My car doesn't make noise. Unfortunately was not recording for that otherwise I would post it.
Plenty of warts, though, as mentioned:
1) Stopping is a disaster. It does stop, and most of the time it doesn't use the brakes (sometimes it does!), but it's premature to a fault. And then it slowly rolls up to the stop line. And then stops five feet before it. This is for traffic lights, stop signs, whatever. It doesn't matter. And dealing with stop signs adds an extra layer of excrement on the whole problem since it hesitates, waits, and generally is completely confused about what to do. (This is with absolutely zero traffic - maybe it does better with traffic though I doubt it.)
2) Speed control is a disaster. Probably the number one problem, since it is basically a constant problem that has to always be addressed, unless there is lead traffic that is going at a pace where it can keep up.
Fix these two problems robustly and it'll be quite good as a driver's aid. I'm not sure what utility that will have, but it's better than having a driver's aid that sucks. The main utility of a driver's aid is one which can go on a straight street with traffic lights and no turns for miles, without intervention. Anything more complex is not required, really. And once these problems are solved it'll be able to do that.
What's unclear is whether they are solvable.
I do think that I'll lose the next bet on Chuck's turn. I'm not sure about the follow-on 12.3 test with traffic though. I think that will be tough for this version. But sooner or later @Daniel in SD will extract a beer. He's pretty far in the hole, so it's about time.
It can't deal with flashing red disabled traffic lights in construction zones. It just stops and stays stopped. Nice smooth movement to merge away from closed lanes (with cones and construction trailers with the flashing arrows) though. (All on Miramar Road which is putting in the poop pipes still.)
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