FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[rlsd]

This guy says he has 12.3.1:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770314583317647683

 

[frankvb]

How do you train the NN to pick the right TACC speed when the driver is providing the steering inputs? Seems like something along those lines might be why it is not available? Seems annoying to have to train up a totally different network.

Good point, didn't think of that. So that would likely require some kind of fallback to v11, which it already does when on freeways. Transition while driving on city streets might be a bit tricky I guess.

On the other hand, we can already change over by changing the driver profile, which indicates it is possible.

 

[TK211X]

 

[Porkalletta]

On the low speed issue I wonder if someone knows if Tesla is programming for Robotaxi. If that's the case I would think that without drivers in the car it would need to"practice" for conservative non-speed intervention. If overriding the speed would be possible would that not negate their objective? That being said, I am not happy with me being in the car, driving grandma mode and not being able to override. I WANT IT ALL.

 

[sleepydoc]

I think Tesla is on purpose setting the speed on the low side so that it feels more save and under control. That has proven to get more wife's approval.

In a way it forces attention (and intervention).

 

[JB47394]

I DID notice that it sometimes braked for cresting hills, which is something older versions of FSD used to do, presumably being cautious because it can't see what lies ahead.

For me, V11's behavior was an artifact. If there was oncoming traffic or I had a lead car, it wouldn't hesitate. Otherwise, it would brake at each crest. With V12, I'd say that 90% of the braking is gone. Mostly, it's just some hesitation. I haven't noticed any observable reason for where it hesitates versus where it does not.

However, it could still be valid.

And this is why I caution people about the future of the neural network control stuff; if there are wonky artifacts that can sneak into the behavior of the car, Tesla may have a time trying to find the right combination of training data that gives them the behaviors that they want in all locations and all driving conditions. I don't believe that this is a case of "Dump training data on the system and voila - automation".

 

[flyhighboi20]

V12 does great in towns and cities but not country roads? Is that the general impression?

This seems to be my experience so far, much better in town but country roads it wouldn't be usable without giving it input with the accelerator fairly regularly. I also noticed it doesn't seem to honor the set speed for me, I had it on auto speed but it would only do 38 on a 55mph road. I'm assuming because it doesn't have speed data and they default it to 25mph which I still don't understand being that probably most roads without data will be rural roads which generally will be 55. So I turned off auto speed (which then had my set speed at 83mph from me seeing if the scroll wheel would do anything while in auto) but when I adjusted the set max speed to 62 it still would only go around 48mph. This was a rural road but a well marked 2 lane, daytime, cloudy, clear visibility setting and I have noticed this on a regular basis with it often not wanting to even go the speed limit. Today I even noticed this on a 4 lane plus middle lane that's well marked speed limit is 45mph, set speed was 51mph and it wanted to do 38mph. I also noticed it doesn't stay in the center of the lane very well which is mostly fine although there have been a couple times where it has drifted to where the tires are on the yellow line. Overall though many improvements, still too slow on some turns, but much more natural other than the constant speed fluctuations, it still can't see stop signs far enough away without them being mapped to be able to stop comfortably but at least now it does stop at them. This update has given me hope for the future of FSD again.

 

[JulienW]

After more time in the saddle seems to me a BIG weakness (even more than v11) is lane selection. Even had two bad ones in a row hindering the same car behind me.

Turned on Piedmont and car got into far left lane. In 3 blocks this becomes a left turn lane. Was the only car and coming up to a red light. I was "wishing" the car to make a good decision and at least move over 1 lane before the light. It didn't and traffic start backing up in the right lanes next to me. When the light changed it keep in the left turn lane until near the end and turned on the signal. Luckily a car slowed and it did take the gap aggressively. Of course the stupid speed decided to slow down in front of the car that let me in so had to hit the Go peddle. Now I needed to turn right 2 blocks and was in left lane. Again coming up to a red light and a perfect time to move over. It didn't and cars backed up beside me. After green the car beside me speed matched me so it couldn't get over. So FSD slowed to let it pass and then changed lanes. Of course the same car that let me in front of them was still behind me. Guess they "know" that Tesla drivers don't "know where they are going".

 

[lascavarian]

I like 12.3 and recognize it as a significant improvement in many ways.

About 10 minutes into my second drive this morning I encountered a stopped full size yellow school bus. Red lights flashing, physical stop sign folded out toward opposing traffic lane (me), barrier bar extended into road, school children gathered around the bus door …

I did not detect a hint that 12.3 was going to stop so I intervened and gave a comment back to Tesla.

Later it handled a flag man situation quite nicely.

This is an interesting foundation from which to build.

 

[rlsd]

Warning: v12.3 moves the car right away to a new open lane on freeway/highway (it could be city street too) and may swing the car.

1. Yesterday I disengaged when the car swung to the new lane on the left that started in the middle of freeway 52 East in San Diego then swing back half way to the original land to counterbalance.

2. On Sunday when going downhill on a single narrow lane on highway 78 from Julian, the car tilted the head to the right right away when it saw a very much wider shoulder.

It should give signal and gradually move the car instead of making a abrupt move.

I disengaged in both situations.
I will pay more attention from now on when seeing a big change in the road lanes.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I won't repeat the V12 shortcomings that I encountered and that others have already posted. My impression of 12.3 is positive. It's smooth and drives like a human, well maybe an extremely careful human. It handles single and multilane traffic circles like champ.

There is still much room for improvement. While attempting to make a URT onto a two lane state highway (55 mph), it stopped at the stop sign, crept forward and then waited, even though there was no traffic coming from the left. As soon as cross traffic appeared, it attempted to turn, causing me to immediately disengage FSD. If I hadn't done so, the car on the highway would have had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting me. This behavior still indicates to me that cameras at the front corners of the car are still needed. BTW, since it's early Spring, the view was not obstructed by vegetation.

 

[kabin]

V12.3 tried to turn left into oncoming traffic. There was no opening in the curbed median island to make a left turn. Vision-only FSD must have been fully relying on old map data as there was road construction in the last year.

 

[hey8you]

This guy says he has 12.3.1:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770314583317647683

It took the wrong road too. Looks like it was supposed to turn left on Pleasant Valley Dr but took the turn too soon and used Oak Park Blvd. That spot is down the street from me. I wonder if V11 would make that mistake.

37°55'59.8"N 122°03'39.7"W · Oak Park Blvd, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

Oak Park Blvd, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[sleepydoc]

V12 does great in towns and cities but not country roads? Is that the general impression?

I wonder if that’s a training issue. If most of the training material was from city, roads and little ones from country roads, then it may simply be out of its element in the country.

 

[gottagofast]

I wonder if that’s a training issue. If most of the training material was from city, roads and little ones from country roads, then it may simply be out of its element in the country.

Well there’s a lot more country roads than city roads so they better start working on that

 

[sleepydoc]

To fallback on TACC on steering override it does need to keep TACC running continuously, so it can instantly switch over. Otherwise you'd get a weird jerky cutover between when FSD drops out and TACC starts up.

(Obviously I don't have an real inside insight into Tesla's software to confirm these ideas, but it seems pretty plausible to me)

Not necessarily. The code is obviously still present in the computer and even if it takes a second to start up the TACC code the driver would clearly still be in control and it wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well there’s a lot more country roads than city roads so they better start working on that

More miles of roads, but in terms of miles driven, city, roads beat out country roads. Also, in terms of training, difficulty, city roads are much more difficult, so it makes sense for them to focus on those first.

 

[Dewg]

Warning: v12.3 moves the car right away to a new open lane on freeway/highway (it could be city street too) and may swing the car.

1. Yesterday I disengaged when the car swung to the new lane on the left that started in the middle of freeway 52 East in San Diego then swing back half way to the original land to counterbalance.

2. On Sunday when going downhill on a single narrow lane on highway 78 from Julian, the car tilted the head to the right right away when it saw a very much wider shoulder.

It should give signal and gradually move the car instead of making a abrupt move.

I disengaged in both situations.
I will pay more attention from now on when seeing a big change in the road lanes.

I'm curious if this is on the v12 stack or v11. Set your speed to "Auto", then watch the speed limit on screen. If it says "Auto - MAX", you're on the v12 stack. If it shows a speed limit number there, you're on the v11 stack.

 

[sleepydoc]

I swear to sweet baby Jesus, if I have to wait till the end of the line of 12.3.1..... I'll... I'll be sad.

What about Jesus in a tuxedo T-shirt playing Lynyrd Skynyrd?

 

[EVNow]

V12 does great in towns and cities but not country roads? Is that the general impression?

Not sure - ofcourse going slow would be a pain on "country" roads. But, lane selection is important in cities - and thats where V11 is weak. Apparently so is V12.

The fact is - lane selection is difficult for humans in a new place too. We "know" when to change lanes, which intersections are likely busy and need to change early etc. FSD is going to have a difficult time with that ... May be they should select a "fail safe" approach where the car gets into the correct lane for turns ASAP, even if that lane is slow. But that is going to be difficult to train.