FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Pdubs]

I guess it's time to buy the most premium X subscription available, and grovel to Elon until he notices you. Hopefully he won't ask Tesla staff to check your history.

I’ve been wanting to do that just for Grok

 

[Todd Burch]

If its not part of guardrail or if its not "10 minutes" ?

If it’s not 10 minutes of work. You’re really just clamping the speed to a maximum.

 

[ArchHamster]

I love FSD v12.

I'm on 12.3.0. Only interventions I make now are to avoid potholes/trash on the interstates, and planning errors. Like FSD wants to get into lanes which is about to merge back into it's current lane to cut people off in a mega asshole move.

I remember way back in pre v9 days, FSD could handle light to moderate traffic on the interstate pretty well.... and kind of do straight roads on backstreets. Then with v10, it could technically do turns on backstreets but only like a few turns well, and handle windy roads with no turns well. Handle light to moderate traffic on backstreets okay. Not handle city streets at all. And could do okay in heavy interstate traffic. With v11, it could suddenly do many turns okay (but hard to predict which ones it would handle well) and technically do all turns on backstreets but in a worse than new driver way and interstate driving was great. Now with v12, It feels like it can do everything it wants to do competently (outside of dense cities) but struggles with planning multiple moves ahead.

I'm satisfied with the progress FSD is making. It's slow, but it's becoming a really wonderful ADAS system. With every major version, I find myself depending on it more and more. I don't feel like I can ask for much more.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Are you sure it wasn’t Metallica?

The final image represents @Pdubs right after the car door slams shut

 

[EVNow]

If it’s not 10 minutes of work. You’re really just clamping the speed to a maximum.

Nothing happens in 10 minutes - once you take into account checking out, checking in, building & testing.

 

[LincolnsDoctor]

Did you see anything on the road that may make it move to the shoulder to avoid? Did you record video to review?

No. At first I thought I had accidently disengaged FSD, but it was still engaged. Later on I was following a car that was driving close to the white and occasionally going onto the shoulder, and my car, instead of staying centered in the lane, was also staying close to the white line , but wouldn't cross the white line. Monkey see, monkey do? Maybe my car saw someone go on the shoulder and thought it was a good idea? Too teleological?

 

[Todd Burch]

Nothing happens in 10 minutes - once you take into account checking out, checking in, building & testing.

I am a senior software engineer who’s been writing code for 35 years. In charge of a commercial software application that makes many millions of $$ a year. I could probably list hundreds of JIRA items I’ve done in less than 10 minutes.

Maybe it’s just because I’m a badass at programming. Or it could be my good looks. Still deciding. Nah, it’s probably my charm and humility.

 

[EVNow]

I am a senior software engineer who’s been writing code for 35 years. In charge of a commercial software application that makes many millions of $$ a year. I could probably list hundreds of JIRA items I’ve done in less than 10 minutes.

Maybe it’s just because I’m a badass at programming. Or it could be my good looks. Still deciding. Nah, it’s probably my charm and humility.

Dude - how exactly do you checkout, checkin, build & test in 10 minutes - something like FSD ? Remember a lot of us here have decades of experience in "commercial software application that makes many millions billions of $$ "

Or are you the type who checks in code that won't build and never heard of testing

ps : Ofcourse if you are making other changes to the same code, the marginal extra time might be 10 minutes ....

 

[sleepydoc]

Dude - how exactly do you checkout, checkin, build & test in 10 minutes - something like FSD ? Remember a lot of us here have decades of experience in "commercial software application that makes many millions billions of $$ "

Or are you the type who checks in code that won't build and never heard of testing

ps : Ofcourse if you are making other changes to the same code, the marginal extra time might be 10 minutes ....

If speed < targetspeed (

Set acceleration = ON;
)

*shrug* seems pretty easy to me!

 

[mgs333]

Interesting, mine consistently stayed above the speed limit (5 - 10 mph) in limited testing (an hour or so). Not sure if it makes a difference but I have mine set to "aggressive", slow was never an issue.

Yeah, mine is set to assertive all the time. But I don't think that affects the acceleration/braking profile. It's strange how our experiences vary so much. Not just you but some others also say it goes over the speed limit but others say it's still under the speed limit.

I do think Tesla will need to make the speed behavior adjustable since there is no 1 size fits all solution to how fast the car goes.

 

[JB47394]

Any other bright engineering ideas?

Yeah, make sure your WiFi is connected. Mine always is, so I didn't notice for several days when it didn't connect for some reason.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'll also give it a try on my wife's 2023 car, since I'm starting to sound like Alan who also has an older model 3.

That’ll fix it for sure.

Personally I’m going to clean my cameras and recalibrate. Super important, works every time.

It’s got to be something with the vehicles because the car obviously has no problem just going to the manual or hidden offset set speed, otherwise it wouldn’t be speeding for people! Clearly. If it doesn’t get to the desired speed, it has to be the car, or just the person involved. No other explanation for the different experiences!

/s

I feel so vindicated though. Yes!

Interesting, mine consistently stayed above the speed limit (5 - 10 mph) in limited testing (an hour or so).

This is a consistent observation when using the appropriate framework, as I have explained at length in widely panned responses (bizarrely). It’s unlikely to be a car dependent thing or anything like that. It’s just dependent on what the car decides the set speed should be relative to the user’s manual (or hidden automatic and adjustable) offset.

It’s not all that complicated. Play around with it and it will become clear.

it should be trivial to limit the car to your set speed offset over the speed limit when the car wants to go much faster.

All this discussion leading from this comment and it already does this! (Though as usual people are confusing this problem with the car not going the set speed.) Just dial down the invisible limit if you are in ASSO mode. You have to calculate your current hidden set speed on the fly (+50% the displayed limit, though there is an outstanding claim to be verified that it is a lower % in less assertive modes), then dial down the exact correct number of times (5mph decrement per precisely executed dial) to get the hidden limit to be the speed you want. Then wait a couple seconds for it to take effect; don’t overdo it otherwise you’ll be going 10mph before you know it. Simple! So easy. Perfect, intuitive implementation. Bravo, Tesla. If any doubts just switch to manual mode on the fly and you can see where you got to with your precise and relaxing dialing (the limit is preserved). It’s safe to do this because the car is driving. Don’t forget that it will probably reset to 50% over at the next limit change.

Or you can just use manual mode with the percentage offset and take the guesswork out of it and start with a more reasonable offset.

It's strange how our experiences vary so much. Not just you but some others also say it goes over the speed limit but others say it's still under the speed limit.

It’s really not strange. Completely consistent. This can happen and I 100% believe everyone’s experiences. I can see exactly why this happens. I don’t know exactly how the car decides how fast (or slow) to go, of course. But that is not necessary, to understand what is happening.

For those for whom the car is traveling too fast, there is a solution as previously explained, though even that will probably still not work adequately for those people in cases with mis-detected or sudden changes in the speed limit. But it will take care of many issues, with some limitations as previously discussed.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If speed < targetspeed (

Set acceleration = ON;
)

*shrug* seem pretty easy to me!

What if there is a car in front of you or traffic that is slowing down? What if there is a pedestrian about to cross? What if there is a turn or a curve upcoming? What if there is a lower speed section approaching? It's stuff like this why the heuristics approach didn't work quite so well.

Plus the complaint seems to be that it's not respecting the posted limit that it detects. Although even in that case there are variables like deceleration profile if slowing down from a higher speed section and also taking into account flow of traffic (whether it is for driver experience of not holding up traffic or whether it is to prevent false positives for example when the map has the wrong speed limit mapped or when the vision sign reading read the sign incorrectly).

 

[Ramphex]

So ~40 min drive with about 10 on Expressway which is not included into here due to version shenanigans between highway and local stacks.

No major issues. I would say about 50-60% less nags, making the experience more enjoyable. I hope this is here to stay and improve and wasn’t just baked in here to impress the people on one month free trial.

Questionable things:

• Did not slow down or stop for a closed gate until last second
• Stopping and creeping up to the line at stop signs, then creeping forward to actually see the intersection. We’ll call this double creeping.
• Riding yellow center line behind slower vehicles, as if it’s trying to see around them
• Gets up to speed limit, then slowly creeps up to the preset offset
• Constant “toll booth detected” messages popping up on the dash (Model S)
• Doesn’t do well staying in the center of the lane, might be the contributing cause to getting too close to curbs and medians while turning.
• One time switched lanes with no turn signal in front of another vehicle
• Did not go around a slow vehicle in the center lane on a 3 lane road without manually pressing a turn signal
• Lane switch into turning lane hesitation was still there
• Does not read speed limit signs on new roads, follows some not anywhere posted 35mph speed limit while the road is clearly indicating 55mph

Overall a huge improvement from v10 and v11. Finally something that’s worth testing on the daily. In my personal opinion, not ready for a wide release to those who have no previous FSDj experience or aren’t big tinkerers.

I’ll try auto on my 40 min drive back and see how it lives up to my personal speed expectations.

So finished today’s trips. Total of about 3.5 driving hours and ~100 miles, mostly local roads.

The first list was the first 40 mins. I turned on auto speed offset for the rest of my testing.

Not many new issues aside from the above mentioned plus:

• Out of the parking lot, hugged the left lane and was heading for the curb with the back wheel, took over
• Lane change hesitations into turning lanes continue
• Felt like there was more steering nags after engaging auto speed offset, can’t confirm 100%, just felt like there were
• Started to go for a left green arrow and then abruptly stopped, saw a vehicle in the rear view going so I stomped on the gas to get it moving to avoid getting a booty tap
• Tried to come to a complete stop for a flashing yellow near a firehouse, had to gas it
• Switched lanes with no blinkers a couple more times
• Hangs out longer than preferred in the left lane prior to crossing 3 lanes to turn right

Cool things:

• Was able to start FSDSj right from a parking spot without any manual driving first
• Switched lanes in advance to get around a tow truck that was hanging into the lane from the middle lane waiting to turn left into the oncoming lane, switched back into the lane after getting around that truck

Overall still no major complaints. Auto offset performed surprisingly well comparing to 12.3

 

[TK211X]

Everyone is arguing about speed when the real issues are these moments where the car destroys itself on curbs.

 

[EVNow]

If speed < targetspeed (

Set acceleration = ON;
)

*shrug* seems pretty easy to me!

That won't compile *shrug*

 

[Mardak]

Should never be taking me down a road at 50mph when the posted speed limit is 35mph and the car is showing 35mph as the identified speed limit.

The UX isn't great with 12.x Automatic Set Speed Offset, but it seems like you've turned that on effectively telling FSD it's allowed to go 50% above the speed limit. If you don't want it to go faster than 35 in 35, set the percentage offset to 0% instead. The guardrail C++ code you describe already exists in 12.x in clamping the speed end-to-end is allowed to go.

 

[lascavarian]

12.3.3 two comments.

Pretty sure school zones have yet to be implemented.

Seems to have a regression related to again misreading certain road side signs as speed limit signs. FSD would mistakenly interpret smallish signs as speed limit signs a year or more ago and it was corrected. Today it dropped to 20 mph in a 45 mph zone as a result of this error returning. Same exact sign as before.

Speed limit is annoying but school zones ….

On the bright side, handling lane selection is better. Speed bumps better. YMMV

 

[FSDtester#1]

Nothing happens in 10 minutes

Not if you asked my wife...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Plus the complaint seems to be that it's not respecting the posted limit that it detects.

There are multiple complaints, all of which are consistent with one another. I may not be listing them all here:

1) The car will exceed the speed limit by too much. And it will not respond in a timely or intuitive manner to dialing down the (hidden) speed target.

Solution: use manual offset mode or do a lot of dialing and keep track in ASSO mode.

2) Car does not respond in a timely manner to speed limit changes.

Solution: Probably requires disengagement. Manual offset could help reduce magnitude.

3) Car does not detect the correct speed.

Solution: not really a good solution to this one since the result is detached from reality on the ground.

4) Car does not go to the user’s specified manual speed offset in manual mode in a timely manner, or ever.

Solution: there is no solution except to use accelerator to kick it up. Or wait and hope it decides to go faster.

5) Car goes way under speed limit, even with correctly detected limit.

Solution: this is related - extreme case - to 4) so solution is the same.

The code you C++ code you describe already exists in 12.x in clamping the speed end-to-end is allowed to go

Thanks for the backup (and pointing out the 50% parameter in the first place).